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#84978 - 10/28/02 04:03 AM Age of Apians
Wordwind Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
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I recently read a paper placemat that had some information about bees on it. One of the points made there was the honeybee is the most successful of all animals of the earth in terms of longevity. The claim on the placemat was the honeybee has lived continuously as a species that has maintained its evolution without much modification longer than any animal on earth.

Now, if this is true, can someone here verify it? Or point me in the direction of a good site for verification?

Bee regards,
WW


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#84979 - 10/28/02 10:57 AM Re: Age of Apians
Fiberbabe Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 771
Loc: Portland, Oregon
It's been my experience that anything you read on a placemat, the back of a cereal box, or on the internet is ipso facto true. By that rationale, you've already got yourself a reliable source.


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#84980 - 10/28/02 11:54 AM Re: Age of Apians
Wordwind Offline
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You know, FB, it's just so dadburned frustrating. You read something on a placemat--sortof miffed with yourself for even reading it--and then you come across a fact (or factoid) that sticks in your brain more easily than the dozens of things that you really wanted to remember because they were so cool--things such as some of the words we read about here. I've got this horrible mental block, for instance, against tsuwm's adjective for "turkey-like." That word simply will not take root. But this factoid about honey bees being the oldest continuously living and unchanging animals on earth will stay completely stuck even though I wonder about the truth of it. And I'll end up spending all kinds of google hours trying to find out whether it's true. I would think there are some one-celled animals that are older than honey bees, for instance. Maybe the place mat left out something or several things.

Bee humbug!
WW


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#84981 - 10/28/02 12:15 PM from word history to bug history
AnnaStrophic Offline
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WW, why don't you write to our friend the entomology prof?


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#84982 - 10/28/02 12:24 PM Re: from word history to bug history
Wordwind Offline
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What a stupendous idea, AnnaS! I will definitely do that. I'll report here if he responds. But how embarrassing to write:

Dear Dr. Professor:

I am interested in ascertaining whether a paper placemat correctly informed diners in the Dew Drop Inn about the honey bee's species having been on earth, virtually unchanged, longer than any other animal. Just a quick "yes" or "no" would satisfy me, but if you'd also like to mention the name of the animal species that does hold the record, so much the better.


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#84983 - 10/28/02 01:26 PM Re: Age of Apians
of troy Offline
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i don't know, but i think horse shoe crabs are old, and unchanged over eons... since water based animals tend to be older than land, and creepy, crawly things older than flying things, i thing the cockroach might also be a contender for older.

still bees are pretty old, and found in amber, even dinosaurs liked honey...
and words for bees and honey are old too, going back to IE (well not english's word, honey but most languages..)
a word that always has a Mand vowel, and sometimes a D or a L-- Mead (honey wine) come from the same root, but so does Melissa, and Mele (czech as recall for honey, but spanish is closer to Mead-- what is it connie? mede? and Melittis (as in diabedes-- that was done not too long ago.. you could look it up)

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#84984 - 10/28/02 01:49 PM Re: Age of Apians
bonzaialsatian Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/27/02
Posts: 261
Loc: London/Prague
Apparently, honey also shares a root with mildew, though I can't really see a connection as the origins of honey were in the colour - golden/pale yellow.


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#84985 - 10/28/02 02:17 PM Re: Age of Apians
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Honey is mel in Portuguese -- I think it's miel in Spanish.


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#84986 - 10/28/02 03:06 PM Re: Age of Apians
Wordwind Offline
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In reply to:

Honey is mel in Portuguese -- I think it's miel in Spanish.


Gives a new meaning and sweetness to mildew, doesn't it?



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#84987 - 10/28/02 03:39 PM Re: Age of Apians
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
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During the rainy season in the Philippines, everything we owned got coated with mildew,
and there was nothing sweet about it.


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#84988 - 10/28/02 03:55 PM Re: Age of Apians
of troy Offline
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honey naturally is pretty antiseptic, and resist most molds. but i think mildew is one of few fungus that can infect honey. (botullism is an other bacterium that also can survive in honey-- barely, there is usually not enough to hurt adults, but children have been effected by the botullism toxin)



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#84989 - 10/28/02 04:28 PM Re: Age of Apians
wwh Offline
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With regard to toxic honey, there is also a long history. One of the
earliest references comes from the writings of the Greek Xenophon
(approx. 400 B.C.) who described the effects of soldiers eating a toxic
honey. The incident occurred in what is now Turkey. The soldiers were
returning to Greece from a campaign in the Persian Empire, encountered the
hives and robbed them of their honey. Xenophon indicated that the
soldiers who consumed the honey lost thier senses, and were inflicted with
"vomiting and purging". A later reference indicates that the honey of
that region was also used against soldiers of the Roman army under
Pompey. The Heptakometes left jars of the honey along the roadside as a
"tribute" to some of the advancing army. The soldiers who ate the honey
lost their senses and were easily defeated by the Heptakometes. The
source of this toxic honey in the Middle East is probably Rhondodendron
ponticum, although R. luteum could also be a source. A good reference to
the toxic honey of this region is Sutlupinar et al. 1993. Poisoning by
toxic honey in Turkey, Arch. Toxicol. 67:148-150.


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#84990 - 10/28/02 04:56 PM Re: Age of Apians
tsuwm Offline
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>I've got this horrible mental block..

well, certainly turkeys have been around as long as man has. :-|

(meleagrine)


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#84991 - 10/28/02 05:27 PM Re: Age of Apians
Fiberbabe Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 771
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Thank God I'm not the only smart-ass in the crowd!


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#84992 - 10/28/02 05:47 PM Re: Age of Apians
of troy Offline
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Registered: 10/17/00
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Loc: rego park
yes, Dr bill, here is a site that has some info,
http://hbd.org/brewery/library/HonD.html, rhodadendrum, and muntain laurel are especially toxic and honey can be too. but that is very different than botullism, (which is a anarobic bacteria, which is harmless, but the bacteria produces a toxin, that is harmful) and mildew, both of which can "infect" the honey.

the 'toxic honey' is a problems that comes from the nector used to make the honey.

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#84993 - 10/29/02 06:15 AM Re: Age of Apians
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
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Loc: lower upstate New York
Hey, WW, d'jou see the wwftd today?


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#84994 - 10/29/02 07:38 AM Re: Age of Apians
Wordwind Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
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Yes, AnnaS, I did see tsuwm's sweet reinforcement of that turkey word that makes me think of margarine and then my brain stops working. Anserine, avian, apian, even hircine stick in my head--but that margarine turkey word takes flight everytime I get close to it.

meleagrin? mealeagrin? I tell you one thing. I'm going to write it on my wrist today and use it with my kids at school about a hundred times, and then I dare that mealy-ol' margarine-like avian to fly away from me ever again!


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#84995 - 10/29/02 08:17 PM Re: The Placemat
Wordwind Offline
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I know the information was incorrect. I've been a-googling this evening, and, from all I read about the honeybee, it ain't even close to being the oldest living species on earth, just as I suspected.

How do those placemat writers get away with it?

I can't find out which is the oldest species, but it appears that the crocodile is one of the oldest and definitely predates the honeybee.

There were bees in the Cretaceous period, but not honeybees, which didn't come along for millions upon millions of years later.

Oh, me, oh, my. Next time I see an alluring placemat, I'm going to turn it over and play Hangman or something.


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#84996 - 10/29/02 08:28 PM Re: The Placemat
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Loc: Vermont
oh man, so you mean this isn't the Year of the Rabbit?

sheesh...

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#84997 - 10/30/02 05:38 AM Re: The Placemat
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
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How do those placemat writers get away with it?

They oughta be reported to the National Board of Place Mat Writers. They's certain standards that should oughta be maintained. Was this restaurant selling queen's jelly on the side?


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#84998 - 10/30/02 07:31 AM Re: The Placemat
Wordwind Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
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Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
In reply to:

Was this
restaurant selling queen's jelly on the side?


Yes. How'd ja' guess?


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#84999 - 10/30/02 08:22 AM Re: The Placemat
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Royal jelly scam:
Royal jelly is the food of queens — not human monarchs, but Queen bees. It's actually
a substance secreted from the glands in the heads of worker bees that's fed to bee larvae.
After a few days, the larvae that have potential to develop into queenscontinue to be fed
this nectar. Since queen bees are much bigger, live much longer, and are more fertile than
all the other bees,this potion is believed by some to impart mystical qualities. In reality,
royal jelly is comprised of 60 - 70 percent water, 12 - 15 percent protein, 10 - 16 percent
sugars, and 3 - 6 percent fats, with vitamins, salts, and free amino acids making up the rest.

People who are allergic to bees and honey, and those who have asthma, can face real dangers
if they take royal jelly. Reactionsranging from bronchial spasms, skin irritations, and asthma
attacks, to more severe anaphylactic shock, and even death, have been reported from its
ingestion. As with many supplements, pregnant and lactating women and small children need
to refrain from using royal jelly. To be on the safe side, anyone with a compromised immune
system also needs to beware.

So, what's all the buzz about royal jelly? This supplement has been taken for a host of ailments.
In addition to its use as a general health tonic, people take royal jelly to:

enhance immunity
prevent arthritis and multiple sclerosis
treat asthma
slow the signs of aging
stimulate hair growth
improve sexual performance
reduce symptoms of menopause
heal bone fractures
lower cholesterol
alleviate cardiovascular ailments
remedy liver disease, pancreatitis, insomnia, fatigue, ulcers, and digestive and skin disorders

Whew. What a list! Unfortunately, good evidence does not exist for any of these purported
health claims. Although studies with rabbits and rats showed a reduction in their cholestero
l levels, and some human trials found a lowering of the bad LDL
cholesterol levels, these reports have not been published, so it is impossible to evaluate their
validity. Seems like royal jelly is just a royal scam.

From:http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2210.html


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#85000 - 10/30/02 08:43 AM Re: The Placemat
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
How'd ja' guess?

Conceptual detection exquisitely subtle.
  -- Falcon of Fong


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#85001 - 11/23/02 04:38 PM Re: The Placemat
consuelo Offline
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Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 2636
Loc: Caribbean
oh man, so you mean this isn't the Year of the Rabbit?

Akshully©, it's the year of the Horse. *hehheh*


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