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Specifically the and a/an.
Most of us can easily state when to use the as opposed to a/an and, with the exception of use with words like history/historical we can explain when to use a and when to use an, but can we explain when to use either one as opposed to using neither? Why, for example, do we say, "cross the street" rather than saying "cross street"?
I just want to open this for discussion. I know that usage varies from language to language. In English, if we want a second beer after having finished the first we ask for another beer. In Spanish, in the same situation, we ask for, literally translated other beer. Even in English, Rhuby might talk about having been in hospital when I would have said in the hospital.
All contributions gratefully accepted. Or is that all the contributions gratefully accepted?
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re:Why do we say, "cross the street" rather than saying "cross street"?
Well actually i say both
Cross the street, is part of a verbal phrase, ("Cross the street with me, and walk in the shade" )
Cross street is an adjective and noun.. (The closest cross street to my office is Reade street.)
Do i use the with specific rules? no..but they are sometimes used to make things clearer.
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(The closest cross street to my office is Reade street.)
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Brit requiring assistance here....
What's a 'cross street'? It's obviously not a street that's upset and angry, as that would be plain ridiculous! I'm presuming that it is literally a street that bisects yours. Is this right?
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a street that bisects yours
While a nit-picker might quibble about the use of bisect, yes, that is basically it, but helen's response missed my point. In the case of cross street vs. cross the street I meant in an equivalent context, as in "Don't cross (the) street without looking both ways."
Normally we would say that the is used when a specific thing is involved, e.g., "that is a book but it isn't the book I was talking about." In the street example however we are talking about a general piece of advice that holds for all streets (no quibbles about one way streets here, please; you can get killed just as dead by someone driving the wrong way on a one way street as you can by someone driving the right way) so why don't we say, "Don't cross a street without looking both ways", or just "Don't cross street without looking both ways"? We could certainly say, "Don't cross streets without looking both ways."
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so why don't we say, "Don't cross a street without looking both ways",
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But you could - for example if you were ticking off a child for running across the road without looking then you could conceivably say to them 'Don't you ever cross a street again without looking both ways', although I would agree that more normally you would tell them not to cross 'the' road.
(Just having a minor flash back to my youth when they used to run adverts on tv with the Jolly Green Giant (I think) teaching children how to cross the road. It used to finish with the instruction: Never Cross the Road without the Green Cross Code)
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'Don't you ever cross a street again without looking both ways'
Good example. I think in this case you could go either way. So what's different about this and the more general, less specific to a given instance "Don't cross the street without..."? As I roll them around in my mouth, I feel we could say either of "Never cross a/the street..." But only "Don't cross the street without...". Somehow "Don't cross a street without..." doesn't sound right to me.
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yes, delivery truck or directions will often as for a "cross street" Since Broadway in NYC is over 12 miles long in Manhattan, and then continues (called Broadway for the most part,) but not always, all the way up to Montreal, a "cross reference" to where on Broadway is the cross street...
So if you were going to 1225 Broadway, the 'cross street' is 30th, but 1212 6th Avenue, and the cross street is 48th street! NY grid makes it easy to get around (1st street is about Houston, Below that is "lower Manhattan", and there is no rhyme or reason, above, that, the "streets" progress in a neat order (256th is close to the last, in NYC, but 234th St. or so is last in Manhattan (at least at Broadway!)
But Avenues start and stop.. and the numbers always start with 1-- so 1 Madison Avenue.. (23rd St.,) where Madison Avenue starts, and 185 Fifth Avenue (24th St.) are 184 numbers apart, but very close (physically) to each other. and one more block west, you'd be on 6th Ave (Avenue of the Americas for out of towners) and at building/lot number 700!
These are adresses I know, but the same examples could be found anywhere.. there are any number of guides to Manhattan that either give you a formula, of are set up as arrays, to find the cross street.
City's like Amsterdam or London, (or Boston) that don't have a ridged gridwork would find the idea of a cross street less useful.
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Oooh my, that sounds complicated! I think I'll just stick to all my nice directions that involve zebra crossings, petrol stations, off licences, traffic lights and bridges and after all that you're there!
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Then there's cross dressing and cross dressers, but I suppose that's altogether a different topic.
It sounds so precious to hear Britishers talking about going to hospital. Here in the USA we would say we're going "to the hospital." So there appear to be certain phrases in which we differ in when we use the definite article--or an article at all.
We say, "Open the door" but we have an "open door policy."
Imagine losing the definite article altogether:
You hit nail on head.
I wonder whether it has to do with cadence? Of course, I wouldn't say "it has to do with the cadence."
It reminds me of a bird practicing song--some rhythms work; others don't. And it must be the hell to play for poor souls who have to learn the English.
Beats me the regards,
WW
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What? its one of the easiest systems in the world..
Since 99% Streets run east/west, and 99% of Avenues run north/south, (nominally!) 30th street and 6th Avenue is a very easy place to find..and to get from there to 36th Street and 5th Avenue, is clearly 1 Avenue away (1 block) and 6 streets-- if you were uncertain.. just head in any direction.. if you go the wrong way you will be at 7th Avenue and 30th, or 6th Avenue and 29th.. but you will have the information you need to get to the right place in 1 block!
long time NY's know which way the traffic flows on most streets, and even in a strange neighborhood, can quickly figure out which way is Up (north) or down(south) The Empire state building still acts as landmark too, (the great southern landmarks are gone.. i am about 2 miles away from Empire state building, but i can see it from the street, one block away.
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