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#75914 07/13/02 07:29 AM
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There's the distinction I'm trying to make, put another way (keep trying, Fish )

I don't think there's a word for this, shona. For my sins I used to review science fiction (amongst other types of fiction) for the newspaper I worked for. There was some extremely dire sci-fi being produced in the 1970s. It was a bit like nearly all of the good plots had already been used and those that hadn't been had been grabbed up by Star Trek's script writers. Most of the books I read were simply recycling others' earlier ideas, usually badly expressed and written - which is, in my book, an even worse crime!

When it comes to film, it's easy to confuse bad special effects with the failure of imagination mentioned by others here. Remember Buck Rogers? And while the original Star Trek series uniforms were probably not simply a product of projection of their times, so to speak, the series production values were and they haven't dated very well either. I'm beginning to notice the same issue with Star Trek NG as well.

Yet consider the Alien movie series as a complete contrast. The clothes weren't all that way-out, but neither were they today's or yesterday's fashions recycled (no skintight catsuits) and the Nostramo sets were "timeless", i.e. they were understated but definitely "different" to anything current or past. And, of course, Ridley Scott commissioned an artist/sculptor to come up with the alien creature and alien architecture which won't date at all until someone actually finds some of the real deal. The only thing that disappointed me about the alien was that withall it was still bilaterally symmetrical, thus imposing earthly evolution on all of creation by implication!

Enough rabbiting. Great thread. Keep away from the desalination/fresh water stuff!



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#75915 07/13/02 01:25 PM
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Shona:

I'm sorry to get in towards the end of this, but I plead a bad week.

I'm a bit surprised that no one's mentioned it, but the word you are looking for may be futurist. I googled that and the first entry is about a World Future Society. It's got a lot of interesting stuff there. When I think of futurist, two people come immediately to mind: Bucky Fuller and Alvin Toffler.

The latter is far more readable, but Fuller is probably the more influential. He and his friend G. O. Desicdome helped shape the future of our world. One of his omre interesting concepts is an umbrellaed city (not domed and sealed, just umbrellaed) that is designed to make the most out of as little as possible. Influenced, I'm sure by Frank Wright, but an order or two of magnitude greater in the grandiosity of his plans.

I can't remember the name of the last book I read by Fuller, but it was damned near impossible for a person of normal intellect like me to get through. Marianas deep.

TEd



TEd
#75916 07/14/02 09:42 PM
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>>Asimov's hero ...allowed for everything in his predictions, eh?
Not mutations. That's why the Mule caused so much trouble.


Ah yes. Been a good while since I read the series, jim.

Hari Seldon got it right in the end, though, despite the Mule. Am I remembering correctly?


#75917 07/14/02 10:00 PM
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I plead a bad week

Condolences, TEd - mine was the week before

the word you are looking for may be futurist
Are futurists people who do "futurology", as mentioned by tsuwm? Or would those be "futurologists"?

I've read Toffler, and was especially impressed by The Third Wave. I'm not sure that Futureshock has come to pass, though. People actually handle an incredible rate of change better than Toffler expected; and it's also never the case that everything changes, so maybe the demands aren't that great.

I suppose I'd see Toffler as more of a "straight line" futurist, projecting the past into the present then following that line into the future.

I don't know about Buckminster Fuller, but get the impression that he's more quirky and occasionally brilliant . More of a (errm, still trying to get the words) "revolutionary" futurist, happy to take major leaps on the basis of proto-seedlings (whaat?)

If my impression of Fuller is correct, I'm trying to get a word for something that Fuller does better than Toffler.

My brain hurts.





#75918 07/14/02 10:10 PM
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Fuller had the ability to turn his futurist thinking into something practical; the geodesic dome, his car which is still too far ahead of it's time, and other concepts which will percolate into the human psyche in some distant future. one of the most profound thinker-doers that has ever lived, on a par with Da Vinci.
Toffler, though brilliant, just gives us things to wonder about.



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#75919 07/14/02 10:15 PM
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I don't think there's a word for this, shona

I'm starting to think you're right Cap. Shall we invent one?

I used to review science fiction
You poor, poor sod! Hope it paid well.

Star Trek ...production values ...haven't dated very well either
Yeah. But I reckon the hardware in Star Trek ain't bad, really. Everything's small and neat, which wasn't necessarily predictable at that time. Sure is now.
I heard that Gene Roddenberry was obliged to introduce the transporter (and thus portable kit, I suppose) because they didn't have money/time to do a landing vehicle. If so, that's real serendipity.

the Alien movie series as a complete contrast
I'd certainly agree with you there, Cap. Ridley Scott's made a bit of a speciality of creating plausible visual futures. Perhaps it's crucial that everything is "lived in".

So... Ridley Scott is a "plausible futurist", not prone to "straight-line futurism" ??

Yuk.




#75920 07/14/02 10:33 PM
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before I start really wracking my brain to come up with a new word, a question:
is there a negative connotation to the concept of "straight-line" futurism? it seems a bit like there is; that if we're going to predict the future accurately we have to get past the present paradigm into something different, therefore the straight-line stuff doesn't really get us there.
yes?
no?

I suppose it also makes a difference how far onto the future we're aiming...



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#75921 07/14/02 10:51 PM
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is there a negative connotation to the concept of "straight-line" futurism?

Well, eta, I feel there is, but that may just be personal taste. "Straight-line" (linear?) futurism probably works well enough in the short-term and within a limited range. Maybe it's a bit like Newtonian and Einsteinian physics being able to coexist quite happily, each being more useful in certain situations (think I'm correct there, but I'm no physicist)...




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what about "futurecaster"?

a bit unwieldy, but describes the idea pretty well.

I'll keep thinking...



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#75923 07/14/02 11:07 PM
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In reply to:

Hari Seldon got it right in the end, though, despite the Mule. Am I remembering correctly?


The 2nd Foundationers got to stick their nose in after the war with the Mule.



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