Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#75555 07/09/02 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Here we go again.
ota or Jot: A very little, the least quantity possible. The iöta is the smallest letter of the Greek
alphabet, called the Lacedemonian letter. (Hebrew, Yod [`], the smallest Hebrew letter.)


#75556 07/09/02 02:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Ireland or Erin is Celtic; from Eri or Iar (western). Lloyd (State Worthies, article "Grandison"), with a
gravity which cannot but excite laughter, says the island is called the land of Ire because of the broils
there, which have extended over four hundred years. Wormius derives the word from the Runic Yr, a
bow. (See below.)
Ireland.
Called by the natives "Erin," i.e. Eri-innis, or Iar-innis (west island).
By the Welsh "Yver-den" (west valley).
By Apuleius, "Hibernia," which is Iernia, a corruption of Iar-inni-a.
By Juvenal (ii. 260) "Juverna" or "Juberna," the same as Ierna or Iernia.
By Claudian "Ouernia," the same.
By moderns "Ireland," which is Iar-en-land (land of the west).
The three great saints of Ireland are St. Patrick, St. Columba, and St. Bridget.
The fair maid of Ireland. Ignis fatuus (q.v.).


#75557 07/09/02 02:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
I'ris Goddess of the rainbow, or the rainbow itself. In classic mythology she is called the messenger of the
gods when they intended discord, and the rainbow is the bridge or road let down from heaven for her
accommodation. When the gods meant peace they sent Mercury. (Greek and Latin, iris.)


#75558 07/09/02 02:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Irony A dissembling. (Greek, eiron, a dissembler, cironeia.)


#75559 07/09/02 03:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Iroquois (An). Anyone of the five (now six) confederate tribes, viz, the Mohawks, Oneidas, Onondagas,
Cayugas, Senecas, and sixth the Tuscaroras, added in 1712, now forming "The Six Nations of the
Iroquois Confederacy."



#75560 07/09/02 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Isabel called She-wolf of France. The adulterous queen of Edward II., daughter of Philippe IV. (le Bel)
of France. According to tradition, she murdered her royal husband by thrusting a hot iron into his bowels.

Hey, CK: is this the one you told us about? I thought in your story it was done by rebellious nobles.


#75561 07/09/02 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Back in the twenties, a "touring car" had a canvas roof that could be folded down, and canvas
panels could be attached to keep rain out. These panels had a flexible transparent plastic called
"isinglass"

Isinglass A corruption of the Dutch huyzenblas (an air-bladder), being prepared from the bladders and
sounds of sturgeon. (German, huyen, a sturgeon.)



#75562 07/09/02 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Its did not come into use till the seventeenth century. Dean Trench points out that Chatterton betrayed his
forgeries by the line "Life and its goods I scorn," but the word its was not in use till several centuries after
the death of the monk to whom the words are ascribed. In 1548 it was used for its.

"The loue and deuotion towardes God also hath it infancie, and hath it commyng forward in
growth of age." (1548.)


#75563 07/09/02 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Jagger A gentleman; a sportsman. (German, jager, a sportsman.)



#75564 07/09/02 05:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Jerked [beef], a corruption of the Peruvian word charqui, meat cut into strips and dried in the sun to
preserve it.


#75565 07/09/02 05:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Jerry-built unsubstantial. A "jerry-builder" is a speculative builder who runs up cheap, unsubstantial
houses, using materials of the commonest kind. (See Jury Mast.)



#75566 07/09/02 05:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Joan of Arc or Jeanne la Pucelle. M. Octave Delepierre has published a pamphlet, called Doute
Historique, to deny the tradition that Joan of Arc was burnt at Rouen for sorcery. He cites a document
discovered by Father Vignier in the seventeenth century, in the archives of Metz, to prove that she
became the wife of Sieur des Armoise, with whom she resided at Metz, and became the mother of a
family. Vignier subsequently found in the family muniment-chest the contract of marriage between
"Robert des Armoise, knight, and Jeanne D'Arcy, surnamed the Maid of Orleaus." In 1740 there were
found in the archives of the Maison de Ville (Orléans) records of several payments to certain messengers
from Joan to her brother John, bearing the dates 1435, 1436. There is also the entry of a presentation
from the council of the city to the Maid, for her services at the siege (dated 1439). M. Delepierre has
brought forward a host of other documents to corroborate the same fact, and show that the tale of her
martyrdom was invented to throw odium on the English. A sermon is preached annually in France
towards the beatification of the Maid, who will eventually become the patron saint of that nation


#75567 07/09/02 06:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Ireland or Erin is Celtic; from Eri or Iar (western). Lloyd (State Worthies, article "Grandison"), with a
gravity which cannot but excite laughter, says the island is called the land of Ire because of the broils
there, which have extended over four hundred years. Wormius derives the word from the Runic Yr, a
bow. (See below.)
Ireland.
Called by the natives "Erin," i.e. Eri-innis, or Iar-innis (west island).
By the Welsh "Yver-den" (west valley).


Tricky, that, because the Welsh language does not contain the letter V!

The actual current name for Ireland in Welsh is Iwerddon, pronounced (roughly) i-wear-thon.


#75568 07/09/02 07:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear Maverick: I rejoice to see you posting in AWADtalk again!
Could that "v" be a typo for "u" of "w" perhaps? I have found several typos in this book.


#75569 07/09/02 07:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Jobation A scolding; so called from the patriarch Job.


#75570 07/09/02 07:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
W
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Joan of Arc or Jeanne la Pucelle. M. Octave Delepierre has published a pamphlet, called Doute
Historique, to deny the tradition that Joan of Arc was burnt at Rouen for sorcery. He cites a document
discovered by Father Vignier in the seventeenth century, in the archives of Metz, to prove that she
became the wife of Sieur des Armoise, with whom she resided at Metz, and became the mother of a
family. Vignier subsequently found in the family muniment-chest the contract of marriage between
"Robert des Armoise, knight, and Jeanne D'Arcy, surnamed the Maid of Orleaus." In 1740 there were
found in the archives of the Maison de Ville (Orléans) records of several payments to certain messengers
from Joan to her brother John, bearing the dates 1435, 1436. There is also the entry of a presentation
from the council of the city to the Maid, for her services at the siege (dated 1439). M. Delepierre has
brought forward a host of other documents to corroborate the same fact, and show that the tale of her
martyrdom was invented to throw odium on the English. A sermon is preached annually in France
towards the beatification of the Maid, who will eventually become the patron saint of that nation


Could this be true? She was the patron saint of my college. This is something worth looking into. Does anyone else know where I might obtain more information?

Best regards,
WW


#75571 07/09/02 07:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Jordeloo (3 syl.). Notice given to passengers when dirty water was thrown from chamber windows into
the street. Either "Gare de l'eau," or else "Jorda' lo!" the mutula being usually called the "Jordan."

I leave someone else the fun of finding out what "mutula" meant.


#75572 07/09/02 07:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Juan Fernandez A rocky island in the Pacific Ocean, off the coast of Chili. Here Alexander Selkirk, a
buccaneer, resided in solitude for four years, and his history is commonly supposed to be the basis of
Defoe's Robinson Crusoe.
Sailors commonly believe that this island is the scene of Crusoe's adventures; but Defoe distinctly
indicates an island on the east coast of South America, somewhere near Dutch Guiana.


#75573 07/09/02 08:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kaffir (Arabic, Kâfir. an infidel). A name given to the Hottentots, who reject the Moslem faith.
Kafiristan, in Central Asia, means "the country of the infidels."


#75574 07/09/02 09:36 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Hi Bill

Yes, I expect it could well be just a typo. Lucky none of us mere mortals perpetrate suck abdominations, eh? ;)

btw, already familiar to some folks here, but I am just reading Anne Faddiman's Ex Libris, and have just finished the chapter detailing her whole family's shared genetic predisposition to proof-read every printed word in front of them, including menus, cornflake boxes, small-ads... lmao!



(and ps Bill, you deserve a medal for long-suffering in the face of overwhelming gittery!)


#75575 07/09/02 09:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear Maverick: My aim was to deprive K of any enjoyment in posting here, and from building
up a group of admirers. I just got an e-mail from webmaster@wordsmith.org, giving a temporary
password allegedly requested by me. I made no such request. Can that be another of K's tricks?
I sent webmaster denial that I had requested it.


#75576 07/09/02 09:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2
R
stranger
Offline
stranger
R
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2
>> Called by the natives "Erin," i.e. Eri-innis, or Iar-innis (west island).

Erin is an anglicized form of the Irish word Eireann, which is the genitive version of Eire, the Irish name for Ireland. You see the Irish version in the names of present-day national organizations like Iarnrod Eireann (the Irish railway company) or Bord Luthcleas na hEireann (Irish Athletic Board). Erin is little-used by anyone these days, except perhaps sentimental Irish-American parents (viz. Colleen, Shannon) or aficionados of bad 19th Century poetry.


#75577 07/10/02 02:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
H
hev Offline
addict
Offline
addict
H
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 477
Jagger A gentleman; a sportsman. (German, jager, a sportsman.)

Hmmm.... never heard him called that before, although I suppose he is a SIR these days, and some people call it 'sport'.


#75578 07/10/02 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kenno This was a large rich cheese, made by the women of the family with a great affectation of
secrecy, and was intended for the refreshment of the gossips who were in the house at the "canny
minute" of the birth of a child. Called Ken-no because no one was supposed to know of its existence -
certainly no male being, not excepting the master of the house. After all had eaten their fill on the
auspicious occasion, the rest was divided among the gossips and taken home. The Kenno is supposed to
be a relic of the secret rites of the Bona Dea.

There was a male cheeze and cracker collation at village stores a hundred years ago,
commemorated now only in the brand name of a good Cheddar cheese - Cracker Barrel.


#75579 07/10/02 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kent (Latin, Cantium), the territory of the Kantii or Cantii; Old British, Kant, a corner or headland). In
the reign of Queen Elizabeth.

Also the ubiety of a famously endowed young man of limerick fame.


#75580 07/10/02 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Ketchup A corruption of the Japanese. Kitjap, a condiment sometimes sold as soy, but not equal to it.

Mr. Brewer is grossly in error in ubiety of origin of ketchup.



#75581 07/10/02 03:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kick (A). Sixpence. “Two-and-a-kick” = two shillings and sixpence. (Anglo-Saxon, cicel, a bit. In
Jamaica a “bit” = sixpence, and generally it means the smallest silver coin in circulation; thus, in America,
a “bit” is fourpence. We speak of a “threepenny bit.”)
It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks” (Acts ix. 5; and xxvi. 14.) The proverb occurs in Pindar
(2 Pythian Victories, v. 173), in Æschylos; (Agamemnon, 1,624), in Euripde (Bacchæ, 791), in Terence
(Phormio, i. ii. 27), in Ovid (Tristia, book ii. 15), etc.; but whether the reference is to an ox kicking when
goaded, or a horse when pricked with the rowels of a spur, is not certain. The plural kentra seems to refer
to more than one, and pros kentra cannot refer to a repetition of goad thrusts. Altogether, the rowels of a
spur suit the phrase better than the single point of an ox-goad.

A source of merriment in Sunday School


#75582 07/10/02 03:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858

Kick the Bucket (To). A bucket is a pulley, and in Norfolk a beam. When pigs are killed, they are hung
by their hind-legs on a bucket or beam, with their heads downwards, and oxen are hauled up by a pulley.
To kick the bucket is to be hung on the balk or bucket by the heels.


#75583 07/10/02 03:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kickshaws Made dishes, odds and ends, formerly written “kickshose.” (French, quelque chose.)



#75584 07/10/02 03:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kid (A). A faggot or bundle of firewood. To kid is to bind up faggots. In the parish register of Kneelsal
church there is the following item: “Leading kids to church, 2s. 6d.,” that is, carting faggots to church.
(Welsh, cidys, faggots.)

Kid (A). A young child. A facetious formation from the Anglo-Saxon ci[l]d, a child. The l is often silent,
as in calm, half, golf, etc. At one time fault was pronounced fau't.

Notice Brewer says the "l" in golf is silent.


#75585 07/10/02 03:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kildare (2 syl.) is the Irish Kill dara, church of the oaks.



#75586 07/10/02 03:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kill Two Birds with One Stone (To). To effect some subsidiary work at the same time as the main
object is being effected.

Birdlovers may invent their own euphemism.


#75587 07/10/02 05:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kismet The fulfilment of destiny. (Turkish, gismet, a lot.)


#75588 07/10/02 05:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kiss as a mode of salutation, comes from its use to express reverence or worship. Thus to adore idols and
to kiss idols mean the same thing. Indeed, the word adore signifies simply to carry the hand to the mouth,
that is, to kiss it to the idol. We still kiss the hand in salutation. Various parts of the body are kissed to
distinguish the character of the adoration paid. Thus, to kiss the lips is to adore the living breath of the
person saluted; to kiss the feet or ground is to humble oneself in adoration; to kiss the garments is to
express veneration to whatever belongs to or touches the person who wears them. “Kiss the Son, lest He
be angry” (Ps. ii. 12), means Worship the Son of God. Pharaoh tells Joseph, “Thou shalt be over my
house, and upon thy mouth shall all my people kiss,” meaning they shall reverence the commands of
Joseph by kissing the roll on which his commands would be written. “Samuel poured oil on Saul, and
kissed him,” to acknowledge subjection to God's anointed (1 Sam. x. 1). In the Hebrew state, this mode
of expressing reverence arose from the form of government established, whether under the patriarchal or
matrimonial figure.


#75589 07/10/02 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Kissing under the Mistletoe Balder, the Apollo of Scandinavian mythology, was killed by a mistletoe
arrow given to the blind Höder, by Loki, the god of mischief and potentate of our earth Balder was
restored to life, but the mistletoe was placed in future under the care of Friga, and was never again to be
an instrument of evil till it touched the earth, the empire of Loki. It is always suspended from ceilings, and
when persons of opposite sexes pass under it, they give each other the kiss of peace and love in the full
assurance that the epiphyte is no longer an instrument of mischief
A correspondent in Notes and Queries suggests that the Romans dedicated the holly to Saturn, whose
festival was in December, and that the early Christians decked their houses with the Saturnian emblems to
deceive the Romans and escape persecution.


#75590 07/10/02 05:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Knee Greek, gonu; Latin, genu; French, genou, Sanskrit, janu; Saxon, cneow German, knie, English,
knee.


#75591 07/10/02 05:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Knight means simply a boy. (Saxon, cniht.) As boys (like the Latin puer and French garcon) were used
as servants, so cniht came to mean a servant. Those who served the feudal kings bore arms, and persons
admitted to this privilege were the king's knights; as this distinction was limited to men of family, the word
became a title of honour next to the nobility. In modern Latin, a knight is termed auratus (golden), from
the gilt spurs which he used to wear.


#75592 07/10/02 05:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
I happen to have a special affection for that name. Who were the Kantii, please?
======================================================

Welcome to you, rjwill6.


#75593 07/10/02 10:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear Jackie: I don't know how to get more detail. Evidently the Latin name for the area was
Cantium, and the inhabitants then were the Cantii.

If I could, I would offer you a "waterglass" of bourbon. Cross threading as usual.


#75594 07/10/02 10:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
young man of limerick fame

Careful Bill, that's my middle name you're talkin' about... :)
(well, my parents wanted a keepsake when they thought they were emigrating to Canada, I don't change costumes in phone boxes!)


OK, your research mission, should you choose to accept it, is to define to the Board the difference between a Man of Kent and a Kentish Man.

This message will self-destruct in 30 seconds....


#75595 07/10/02 11:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear Mav: I cheerfully plead ignorance, and beg the boon of your enlightening me.


#75596 07/11/02 12:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
oh Bill, I'm shocked :)

Here's a representative quote from a quick googlehaul:

"A Man of Kent by birth., which means I was born east of the River Medway as opposed to a Kentish Man who comes from the west of the river. Legend says, the Men of Kent resisted William the Conqueror more stoutly than the Kentish Men, who weakly surrendered. Afterwards the bravery of the Men of Kent made them proud while Kentish Men were believed to be weak-minded, and so a keen rivalry developed...."

http://dmoz.org/profiles/ddrj.html


#75597 07/11/02 12:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear MAV: the dictionary of phrase and fable I am mining had a similar bit of information
about Kent. I was unaware that anybody in AWADtalk would be interested, so I did no
select it to post, nor remember it. I have no idea where the Medway is. Which side
did the wellendowed lad inhabit?


#75598 07/11/02 12:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Don't know, Bill - but I guess whichever side of the river he came from, he went over to the other side ;)


#75599 07/11/02 01:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
What a trajectory to his ejaculation!


#75600 07/11/02 09:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
F
veteran
Offline
veteran
F
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
What a trajectory to his ejaculation!

Ha! The most miniscule of sneezes when set alongside panspermia.

Back to Kent, here's a nice little overview (including a bit of history) of "The Garden of England":
http://www.angelfire.com/tn/goldengreen/manokent.html


#75601 07/11/02 04:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Well, I adore my man Kent , and thank you, shona/fisk, for your informative link which said, among other things, The division may have arisen when the Jutes, who settled in Thanet over 1,500 years ago, moved into the area we know as Kent, calling on part East Centingas and the other West Centingas. There have been two Kent dioceses since AD605 - Canterbury (East Kent) and Rochester (West Kent). . Now I have a couple more questions (surprise, surprise). It also said Kent has ...there is the well-worn image of the White Cliffs of Dover, the hopfields, oasthouses, blossoming orchards, attractive timber and pantile houses .... What are oasthouses and pantile houses, please?


Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Oast houses! oo, oo i know!
Oast is a classic crossword puzzle word! Oast is the name given to the ovens in which hops are dried. Hops are the last crop of the year for the migrant farmers (that bit comes from being forced at some point to read Tess of the D'ubervilles. (i detest Hardy!)

Hops are used to flavor and preserve beer.

now as for the Pantile houses.. you need someone else!


Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Mav:

Yes, there's a difference twixt the Kentish and the man of Kent, but that pales into insignificance when one considers the cowardly Viords. When the Picts marched into their lands they rolled over on their backs and exposed their bellies without even lifting a finger. So cowardly were they that to this day we say: one Pict is worth a thousand Viords.

TEd



TEd
#75604 07/11/02 08:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Evidently a place name, but all I could find was:
Fairfax Gallery - set in the heart of the historic Pantiles. Features contemporary art.


#75605 07/11/02 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
I had a hunch and searched for England travel Pantiles and got a picture, but I
can't figure out yet what "Pantiles" means.

http://www.geocities.com/~arow/html/tunbridge_wells_0498a-x1.html

Unless it means that wide flagstone promenade or whatever it should be called.


#75606 07/11/02 09:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
F
veteran
Offline
veteran
F
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
but I can't figure out yet what "Pantiles" means

It's a particular type of roof-tiling, Bill, as used on the "outhouse" (not "backhouse" in this case ) at this property:
http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/ppom012001.htm

Kent is the county adjoining East Sussex, where I live. Definitely has its own unique character and beauty.


#75607 07/11/02 11:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
ROYAL TUNBRIDGE WELLS
Museum and Art Gallery
Open Mon/Sat 9.30am-5pm. No admission charge.
A stylish 18th-century spa town. One of the most elegant parts of the town
is the Pantiles, a 17th-century arcade where the gentry of the Regency
period used to gather and take the waters. It now houses specialist shops
and studios, but at its centre is the Chalybeate Spring, where you can still
take a glass of spring water for 25p. The museum/gallery, at the northern
end, has a good collection of local ceramics, Tunbridge ware, and
agricultural relics.


#75608 07/12/02 09:04 AM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
R
addict
Offline
addict
R
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
East Sussex, where I live

Is that the same as South Essex then, FoaB?


#75609 07/12/02 10:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
F
veteran
Offline
veteran
F
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
ROYAL TUNBRIDGE WELLS...One of the most elegant parts of the town is the Pantiles

Yes Bill - part of the town named after an architectural feature (the type of roofing in this case), a bit like calling an old part of town The Cobbles. Not to be confused with Cobblers.

"Tunny Wells" is just up the road from me, easy shopping trip distance.



#75610 07/12/02 10:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
F
veteran
Offline
veteran
F
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
>East Sussex, where I live
Is that the same as South Essex then, FoaB?


No!

There's certainly reason to your rhyme though - Sussex is a shortening of South Saxons and Essex of East Saxons. The split between East and West Sussex, however, was a relatively recent political/administrative thing.
http://www.camelotintl.com/heritage/counties/england/sussex.html




#75611 07/12/02 11:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Ohhhhhh, thank you, Shona! How utterly lovely! (Hi, dxb.) I WILL get to England, I WILL get to England...
I've heard of several places your link mentioned. It had one sentence that struck me as odd: Sussex is drained north to south by a number of rivers Although true, I'm sure, it would "taste better" to me if it said something like 'several rivers run north to south through Sussex', or 'Sussex gets a great deal of rain, and several rivers help drain off the excess'. The way the link words it, I was expecting to find that Sussex had a drainage system that had been deliberately set up.
Oh--one thing struck me as funny: it mentioned "the Saxon Ella"--made me think of salmonella!
Um--is this where the white cliffs of Dover are?


#75612 07/12/02 12:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
F
veteran
Offline
veteran
F
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
'Sussex gets a great deal of rain, and several rivers help drain off the excess'

Love this, J!

Nah, it doesn't really - in fact, Sussex, being about as far South as you can get in England, benefits from fairly mild conditions, and gets a lot less rain than, say, Scotland (hi Jo!) or Ireland (hi Rube!). Or Manchester (hi dody!) at that. A very notable exception was during the floods a couple of years back, but then it was very wet all over the country.

I thought that saying a place "is drained by a number of rivers [going wherever]" or "is drained primarily by the river Ouse [or whatever]" was just correct geographical-type terminology; and I assumed this construction to be global. Is that not the case, then?

"the Saxon Ella"--made me think of salmonella!

The Salmon Ella was, of course, a warrior king of the Salmon that, with some cronies, swam up river and laid waste the spawning grounds of other fish. These other fish found his presence hard to stomach.

More on the Saxon Ella here:
http://63.1911encyclopedia.org/E/EL/ELLA.htm
Not the sort of bloke to pick a fight with, by the sounds of it!

is this where the white cliffs of Dover are?
They're in Kent (and Dover is, incidentally, one of the Cinque Ports http://www.digiserve.com/peter/cinque.htm) - which takes us neatly back to where we started.

A lot of chalk makes up the South Coast of England. The South Downs (gentle rolling hills, slightly inland) run down into the sea (heading towards Kent), where they become eroded, and parts fall away, revealing the white chalk beneath. Thus White Cliffs.


#75613 07/13/02 01:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Oh, oh, Shona, I love it! I've never heard of the Cinque Ports...the term, I mean. Here're a couple of things your link says:
The Cinque Ports were first mentioned in a Royal Charter of 1155 and for certain privileges maintained ships that could be called upon by the Crown in times of strife. ...

According to the original Charter, the members of the Cinque Ports had the right to:

"soc and sac, tol and team, bloowit and fledwit, pillory tumbril infangentheof, outfangentheof, mundbryce waives and strays, flotsam and jetsam and ligan".



#75614 07/14/02 10:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
F
veteran
Offline
veteran
F
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,346
soc and sac, tol and team, bloowit and fledwit, pillory tumbril infangentheof, outfangentheof, mundbryce waives and strays, flotsam and jetsam and ligan

May as well be Lewis Carroll


#75615 07/14/02 10:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858


Original
Translation
tax and tallage
Exemption from Tax and Tolls
soc and sac
Right to Self Government
tol and team
Permission to Levy Tolls
blodwit and fledwit
Punish people who shed blood or flee from
justice
pillory and tumbril
Punishment for minor offences
infrangentheof and
outfrangentheof
Power to detain and execute felons both inside
and outside the jurisdiction of the port
mundbryce
Punish breaches of the peace
waives and strays
Take ownership of lost and unclaimed goods
after 1 year.
flotsam and jetsam and
ligan
Take ownership of goods thrown overboard or
floating wreckage.

I remember reading somewhere else that "ligan" referred to ship owner being able to claim
merchandise put overboard, but hitched to a mooring.


#75616 07/15/02 10:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Wow, Dr. Bill--thank you! Where did you find all that?


#75617 07/16/02 12:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
OP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear Jackie: I didn't give URL as the above list was only pertinent part.

http://www.villagenet.co.uk/history/1155-cinqueports.html scroll down half way

Actually the phrases and translations were in a chart that did not get reproduced.


Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,318
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 775 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,535
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5