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#7429 - 10/08/00 07:21 PM Challenge - Rogaine
Marty Offline
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Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 347
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Well, ammelah et al - you asked for it! Here's one that will send you scurrying for your on-line dictionaries and search engines....

Who can be first to reply with a CORRECT (sorry Jazz, but don't let that stop you!) etymology AND definition/description for the following family of words:

rogaine (noun and verb)
rogaining (noun and verb)
rogainer (noun)

[Please note - I am NOT referring to the baldness treatment marketed by Pharmacia and Upjohn.]


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#7430 - 10/08/00 08:18 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409

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#7431 - 10/08/00 08:21 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Sorry, I forgot the etymology:
"The acronym Rugged Outdoor Group Activity Involving Navigation and Endurance gained popularity, but the name Rogaining originates from the names Rod Gail and Neil Phillips."

from http://rogaine.asn.au/ara/docs/history.html



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#7432 - 10/08/00 08:33 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Whoa, Max, I bow and scrape before your verve and veracity!

I found this lovely sentence in your Manx link: This patronal fair was latterly held on Whit Monday, near the Brown Cow Inn, in the treen of Knockalaughan, but it must have been anciently held near the parish church, which is situated on the old road from Douglas to Castletown.

What's a patronal fair? What is Whit Monday? The Brown Cow Inn??? Sounds udderly charming! And what on earth is a treen??

I was puzzled at first as to why you put that link there.
Thought for a minute you were sending us to Ashole!


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#7433 - 10/08/00 08:41 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Whit Monday is the day after WhitSunday *helpful look*


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#7434 - 10/08/00 08:53 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Marty Offline
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Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 347
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Well done, Max, on both counts. Too easy, apparently. But before our northern (bottom-dwelling) cousins cry "No fair", since most self-respecting posters - except the insomniacal Jackie - have retired to their four-posters, let me say this.... I won't be AWAD-ing you a prize, Max - not even the traditional rogaining trophy of an old boot - in case it goes to your head. (No boot-to-the-head pun intended).


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#7435 - 10/08/00 09:55 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Max Quordlepleen Offline
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before our northern (bottom-dwelling) cousins cry "No fair", since most self-respecting posters - except the insomniacal Jackie - have retired to their four-posters, let me say this....

I thought of delaying my post for that reason, then realised that such a courtesy would not be extended to any Antipodeans if a challenge were issued in our "wee smalls", which knowledge emboldened me to just do it


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#7436 - 10/09/00 08:14 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
RhubarbCommando Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
What's a patronal fair? What is Whit Monday? The Brown Cow Inn??? Sounds udderly charming! And what on earth is a treen??

Patronal fairs were (are) celebrations held in honour of the patron saint of the village church.
Whit Monday is the day after Whitsun, which is the seventh Sunday after Easter, when the day of Pentecost is celebrated in the Christian church. It is derived from White Sunday, a reference to the white baptismal robes. Whit Monday has been a day of festivity for many hundreds of years in England, until it was replaced about twenty years ago by "Spring Bank Holiday," on the last Monday in May.
"The Brown Cow" and similar names are fairly usual for pubs in this country. Not far from me (about thirty miles away, over in Yorkshire) is a pub called "The Craven Heifer," which seems to signify a pusillanimous young bovine female. In fact, Craven is the name of the district in which the pub is situated. My own local is named "The Green Dragon" and, in the next village, there is a pub called "The Bay Horse." There is also a Yorkshire brewery known as "The Black Sheep Brewery" - and very fine ale it produces, too, (although it goes against the grain for anyone in Lancashire to say anything good about anything Yorkshire !)




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#7437 - 10/09/00 10:46 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
maverick Offline
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Posts: 4757
similar names are fairly usual for pubs in this country

Don't want to confuse this with A Contest, lest the one going at the moment is diluted, but it does suggest a new thread...


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#7438 - 10/09/00 11:41 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
RhubarbCommando Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
Sorry mav: I got carried away by Max's and Jackie's historical references. It's a sort of Pavlovian response with me, as you may have noticed. Which is a term that always gives me a mental picture of dogs with bowls of meringue-and-ice-cream with rasberries.


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#7439 - 10/09/00 12:24 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
maverick Offline
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our northern (bottom-dwelling) cousins

As a comparative new member, I'm still trawling thro' the back-issues, so as a gesture of solidarity to fellow sufferers, I've turned over the string that this refers to, under Miscellany.

And not least because of Jo's delightful link to the Peter projection as an alternate 'world view' - which I reckon should be on all classroom walls, whether North, South, West or Oriented


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#7440 - 10/09/00 10:10 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
I thought of delaying my post for that reason, then realised that such a courtesy would not be extended to any Antipodeans if a challenge were issued in our "wee smalls"

Excuse me, but the considerate Jo pointed out this issue
a long time ago, and the time zone differences have been
by and large taken into account since then, I think. I would like to add that that courtesy has been
extended, more than once.


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#7441 - 10/09/00 10:56 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Posts: 3409
by and large taken into account since then, I think. I would like to add that that courtesy has been extended, more than once.

My post simply referred to the darwinian nature of "a challenge" - to misapply the Biblical quote, it comes down to the quick and the dead. If someone posted a challenge at, say, 03:00 NZ time, I would never expect others to defer answering until those sleeping were awake. I know that there will be many times when others will be able to respond to a challenge faster than I, so, when I have the chance, I shall seize it. You should see me at the dinner table!


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#7442 - 10/10/00 12:39 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Bingley Offline
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Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
What actually is the difference between rogaining and what we called orienteering (not, Jackie will be relieved to hear, orientateering) at school?

Bingley
_________________________
Bingley

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#7443 - 10/10/00 06:25 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
I don't have any problem with the word orienteering!
I've even done it, on a small scale.

Rhuby, thank you for the edification. You may get carried away with me any time. But I still don't know what a
treen is.


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#7444 - 10/10/00 06:59 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Bridget Offline
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Registered: 06/27/00
Posts: 444
Loc: Sydney Australia
>I still don't know what a treen is.<

I looked it up at dictionary.com and got an obsolete plural of trees. That would seem to fit in the context?


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#7445 - 10/10/00 07:13 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Bridget Offline
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Registered: 06/27/00
Posts: 444
Loc: Sydney Australia
>There is also a Yorkshire brewery known as "The Black Sheep Brewery" - and very fine ale it produces, too, (although it goes against the grain for anyone in Lancashire to say anything good about anything Yorkshire !)<

Barbie, (if I may call you that? Ruby, Barbie, Commie, Mandy - you choose....)

I cannot let this referral to the Black Sheep Brewery go unpassed. Are you aware of the history behind the name?

There is an old established brewery in Masham, Yorkshire, called Theakston's, after the family who founded it and owned it for generations. Within living memory, (I remember it!) one of the sons left the family business and set up, in the same town, an alternative brewery. To wit, the Black Sheep Brewery.

Check it out:

http://www.blacksheep.co.uk

http://www.breworld.com/bgbw/jeffor12.html

I don't know what you think about Theakston's, but my sister and brother-in-law, who live in Michigan, have to visit the UK regularly to restock their cellar with Old Peculier....



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#7446 - 10/10/00 08:18 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Bridget, that was SO interesting! I'm glad I bothered to read the whole thing; else I would have kept assuming (nope, still haven't learned) from the name that he'd just had a falling-out with his family.
Did Masham get its name from the industry, do you know?
Living in Kentucky, the bourbon capital of the world, I have not been able to help learning a bit about the process.
I saw that Mr. T. places a high value on the quality of the
water he gets, as does Maker's Mark here, and also Jack
Daniels (hi, Anna!) in Tennessee.

Two asides: I have no wish to be carried away by a Barbie, and, in the other thread, do you know I did not even SEE
Max's new zeal and..., until he pointed it out!
If there is another, I have been unable to dope it out.


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#7447 - 10/10/00 10:59 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
RhubarbCommando Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
Black Sheep Brewery go unpassed. Are you aware of the history behind the name?

I certainly am, Bridie: (if I may call you that )
Paul Theakston may be a black sheep so far as the rest of his family is concerned, but he's one of my heroes. Theakston's is still good ale, but the S&N brewery has not improved it - if anything, the reverse is true. Mind you, I'm a Londoner, not a Lancastrian, and that is the excuse I offer for my renegade tendencies re: the wars of the roses.
Tell your sister and B-in-law to try Balck Sheep's "Rig Welter" when next they come over.


BTW, general usage seems to favour Rhu, Rhube, or Rhuby, rather than other diminutives, but I'll answer to any name that precedes the sentence, "... can I buy you a pint?"




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#7448 - 10/10/00 11:09 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
RhubarbCommando Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
I still don't know what a
treen is.


Sorry Jacky, me dear, (whoops - that's from the Madeira thread) I had meant to put in a definition but the previous post went on so long that I kinda forgot.

So far as I'm concerned - and I show my age very obviously here - a "treen" is a green skinned person of roughly human shape but without human emotions (or any emotions, actually) who lives on the planet Venus in a society controlled by The Mekon - a little, wizened creature with a massive head, who floats around on the prototype of the Hovercraft. He is the Arch-Enemy of Dan Dare, spaceman.


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#7449 - 10/10/00 12:13 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
maverick Offline
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
Black Sheep Brewery go unpassed

Reminds me of the old chestnut of a sign in the gents' loo in a pub:

You cannot buy our beer for love nor money - you can only rent it!

Ow! Sorry Bridget I'll go home now.


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#7450 - 10/10/00 03:29 PM Re: treen
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
"Treen" (often spelled "trine") is a Middle English borrowing of the medieval French word for loo (or what served its purpose 500 years ago). Thus, technically speaking, "the latrine" is redundant.

(If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!)


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#7451 - 10/10/00 04:45 PM Re: treen
tsuwm Offline
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Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
<sigh> treen = woodware

1971 Canadian Antiques Collector - Articles ranging from ladles to snuff boxes, candlesticks to combs, may be included in the group known as treen. 1980 Daily Tel. - hand-turned treen are a joy to look at and a great pleasure to use. 1981 Rescue News - The site has also yielded a great deal of domestic material, including a rich collection of pottery, pewter and treen.

[...in addition to being an old plural form of tree]

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#7452 - 10/10/00 05:01 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Marty Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 347
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
What actually is the difference between rogaining and what we called orienteering...?

Bingley and other would-be rogainers,

Rogaining is to orienteering as chess is to draughts. No, that's a bit unfair and likely to start an intersports war.

Let's start with the similarities... Both sports involve navigation on foot, usually through unfamiliar terrain, using map and compass to find checkpoints ("controls") marked on the map.

Now for the differences...

The typical orienteering course involves competitors running on their own - at say 2-minute start intervals -around a course of say 10 to 12 checkpoints which must be taken in order. Fastest finishing time wins, usually around an hour.

A rogaine involves teams of 2, 3, 4 or 5 people (for company and safety) navigating around a large area getting as many of the marked checkpoints as they can in the TIME allotted, IN ANY ORDER. Highest score wins, and to complicate matters, checkpoint values vary, from say 10 points for a close easy one to 80 points for one that is far away, on a high hill, or navigationally difficult. This type of event is usually referred to as a "score" event, in contrast to orienteering's normal "line" event. The "classic" (and usual "championship" rogaine) is 24 hours (eg midday Saturday to midday Sunday), with winners covering more than 100km in that time. Organizers have responded to recent market pressure by holding 12-hour, 8-hour and 6-hour events.

Orienteering appeals to me because it combines the physical exertion of running with the mental challenge of choosing the optimal route between each checkpoint and the next. Rogaining has all of that too, but adds another layer - the need to optimize the ENTIRE route strategy and also take into account fatigue, darkness etc. Should we head north towards the flat farmland or south into hilly forest with higher checkpoint values? Where will we be when night falls? Which checkpoints should we skip? Should we sleep at all? Should we plan one big loop, or several smaller ones with returns to the "hash house" for hot meals provided by happy catering volunteers (that one's usually an easy choice!).

That's what they call a long answer to a short question. Congratulations to anyone who read this far.

The AWAD spell checker wants to call all rogainers Roger. Was it a Monty Python sketch where all soccer players called each other Bruce?


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#7453 - 10/11/00 01:12 PM Re: treen
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
SIGH: treen.

Folks, the sentence says that the fair was held in the treen; and that treen had a name. So, I don't think that treen here means a bathroom or a piece of woodware, unless
either was quite a bit larger than normal. A stand of
trees seems the best bet so far. I'm taking that one. (For those who want to verify, the sentence is in my post on
page 1.)


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#7454 - 10/11/00 09:04 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
belMarduk Offline
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Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2891
Rogaining sounds like a lot of fun. Reminds me of my younger years when I was in the airforce cadets and we were thrown out in the forest for survival training.

HOWEVER...am I the only one who knows the word ROGAINE as the brand name of a shampoo sold to men who have started to lose their hair and wish for the fallout to stop. This is a pretty common product here. I have also seen it in the U.S.A. (New York and Florida).


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#7455 - 10/12/00 12:04 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Marty Offline
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Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 347
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
...am I the only one who knows the word ROGAINE as the brand name of a shampoo sold to men who have started to lose their hair...

No you're not, belM, which is why I specifically excluded it in the last sentence of my first post. I haven't seen the product here in Oz. Either my (Australian) friends Rod, Gail and Neil Phillips who invented the sport Rogaining and named it after themselves were blissfully unaware of the hair product, or perhaps it hit the market after the sport appeared (c 1975). [Or it's their sick humour.] The sport spread throughout Australia, and thence to USA, Canada, Europe and NZ, not necessarily in that order. Four World Championships have been held, in Australia (twice), USA and NZ, with the 5th to be held in the Czech Republic in 2002.

In my long explanatory post, I didn't mention that there are now several interesting variations on the classic country rogaine-on-foot, namely:

Snogaine
Metrogaine
Cyclogaine (with a handicap category for fish)




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#7456 - 10/12/00 08:11 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
paulb Offline
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Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 460
Loc: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
<we were thrown out in the forest for survival training. >

Well, bel, glad you survived. How high up were you when you were thrown out (of a plane, I assume) and did you have a parachute (or a pair of wings <grin>) to assist your descent?




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#7457 - 10/12/00 10:03 AM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
maverick Offline
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
a handicap category for fish

What exactly constitutes a handy cap for a fish? We need to know these things...


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#7458 - 10/12/00 04:38 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
Marty Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 347
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
What exactly constitutes a handy cap for a fish? We need to know these things...

I'm not sure, but a flathead would have trouble keeping it on, whatever it was.


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#7459 - 10/12/00 06:10 PM Re: Challenge - Rogaine
belMarduk Offline
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Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2891
I'd say, considering they have no hands, their handicap would be quite high. Also, I'm sure they'd always be trying to hit those water hazards. Mind you, maybe they play golf just for the halibut.


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