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#70532 - 05/20/02 02:46 AM Re: Second Amendment Question
lusy Offline
member

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 140
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
... a study in sentence structure.

Surely all we have to do is take out all the commas except the one after "state". Seems clear enough to me then.


lusy

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#70533 - 05/20/02 09:06 AM Re: Second Amendment Question
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
take out all the commas except the one after "state"

They were rather freer with their commas back in the 18th century. They had rather more spare commas floating around than they did govenment money to buy guns with. And no standing armies to care for the guns anyway. Regarding the comma use, the main point of this thread given its existence in this forum, one could look at other, less controversial, sentences in the Constitution to get a feel for the style of the time.


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#70534 - 05/20/02 09:31 AM Re: Second Amendment Question
TheFallibleFiend Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 1523
Loc: Virginia, USA


As a gun-toting redneck, this is what I think it means.

I think it means that we have an individual right to bear weapons. I do not believe that "the people" really means "the state." I do not, therefore, believe that the National Guard is sufficient to eliminate this as a personal right. OTOH, I think that this includes anything from a BB gun to a nuclear missile.

However, my further opinions have put me at odds with the rest of my family. I don't believe that the 2nd gives us a right to hunt, for example, or the right to defend our homes against intrusion with guns. Those may or may not be good uses for guns, but if they are protected by the Constitution (and I hope they are), then they are covered by the 9th amendment and not the 2nd. Nor is the purpose of the 2nd amendment to give people defense against their own government. That's called treason.

Clearly there's a problem here. The law was written long before anyone could have imagined weapons of mass destruction. I think it needs to be revised.

k



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#70535 - 05/20/02 09:33 AM Re: Second Amendment Question
WhitmanO'Neill Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 4189
Loc: Rio Grande, Cape May County, N...
commas in the writing style of the time

If you take a look at this excerpt from Thomas Paine's Common Sense, written in the same period, you'll note, even for all its eloquence, the liberal use of commas and other punctuation.

http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=67948


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#70536 - 05/20/02 10:07 AM Re: Commas
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
There are two schools of thought regarding comma use; the grammatical and the rhetorical. The advocates of the former school err when they rail against such statements as I was talking with my wife Martha if they claim it requires that the author of such a statement have more than one wife. The author need only be an advocate of the rhetorical style of comma use who would not say aloud, "I was talking to my wife (pause) Martha."


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#70537 - 05/20/02 04:29 PM Re: Second Amendment Question
Capital Kiwi Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
Interesting discussion, folks. I've often wondered precisely what the Second Amendment was suggesting and I've long since come to the conclusion that it means that the guvvermint wants y'all to have guns - finest kind if possible - an' y'all kin go right ahead an' keep 'em well-oiled so that when the prez crooks his little finga y'all can come a'runnin' to your country's defence ... at your expense, mind you. If it's interpreted that way, it could mean anything from a slingshot to a neutron bomb. Personally, I'd plump for an Abrams tank parked in the driveway.

The amendment probably made a lot of sense in the context of eighteenth century America, especially with the post-Revolutionary War dollar being worth slightly less than the paper it was printed on.

Over to you guys to decide if it's still relevant! Know where I can buy a good second-hand tank?

_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...

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#70538 - 05/20/02 07:23 PM Re: Second Amendment Question
AphonicRants Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 200
Kiwi with his own personal tank ... the mind boggles at the thought!


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#70539 - 05/20/02 07:32 PM Re: Second Amendment Question
milum Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/03/01
Posts: 872
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
I've often wondered precisely what the Second Amendment was suggesting and I've long since come to the conclusion that it means that the guvvermint wants y'all to have guns - finest kind if possible - an' y'all kin go right ahead an' keep 'em well-oiled so that when the prez crooks his little finga y'all can come a'runnin' to your country's defence ... at your expense, mind you. - Cap Kiwi

Kinda cute political comment Kiwi, considering that you all, dance around the American construction of events when it comes to your own survival. Bless you for your input into the reconstruction of the meaning of our second amendment. But please stick to the logical sequence of accepted semantics.
You all, I understand, have your own problems down under.



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#70540 - 05/21/02 05:23 PM Re: Second Amendment Question
Capital Kiwi Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
Kinda cute political comment Kiwi, considering that you all, dance around the American construction of events when it comes to your own survival.

This is snide political comment. I was "interpreting" the meaning of this as intended by its author:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "

with a bit of humour.




_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...

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#70541 - 05/21/02 06:59 PM Re: Second Amendment Question
milum Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/03/01
Posts: 872
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
This is snide political comment. I was "interpreting" the meaning of this as intended by its author: - CK

OK, Capital Kiwi, I reread your post, I see the humour, I apologize for my snideness. It's just a crying shame that a grown man has to use his 400th post, the one that confirms his Addicthood, groveling and apologizing.

- - Milum -

- - - -


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