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#69535 05/12/02 03:00 PM
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There are more than a few former occupations made obsolete by changes in technology. Who can remember the name of the gentlemen who removed the pollution left behind by horses?


#69536 05/12/02 04:12 PM
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wasn't it a street sweeper? in NYC, the first street sweepers, and all of the department of Sanitation, was a sub agency of the board of health.. Sanitation, (aka, san man or garbage man) is also the agency responsible for water-- supply side that is! and now days, they work closely with the Department of Parks, and compost fall leaves and summer grass clipping into compost (free for the hauling-- and container are availabel at a discount.)

the Ringling Br. Circus also markets "exotic manure" for your garden... you can get Elephant manure (at a premium price for manure) for your garden.

but continuing on the theme. Coleco, a toy manufacturer, (notably, Cabbage Patch kids dolls, ) used to be...?


#69537 05/12/02 05:04 PM
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I must be mad to post what I'm gonna post, but here goes:

(I confess) I was a tour guide at Walt Disney World ages ago. We called the street sweepers on Main Street USA who swept up the huge droppings of the Percherons, Belgians, and Clydesdales pooper scoopers.

Snow White, at the time I worked in the Magic Kingdom, was rumored to be having an affair of the heart with one of the Seven Dwarfs.

Beast regards,
Walt'sWorld


#69538 05/12/02 05:25 PM
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Dear of troy: those horse apple removers had a euphemistic designation based on color of their uniform. Can you recall that?


#69539 05/12/02 05:30 PM
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its before my time! but NYC street sweepers wore white!, like nurses and other health profressionals.


#69540 05/12/02 06:14 PM
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Right! And they were mockingly called "Whitewings" it's even in my dictionary. There were many jokes and cartoons about them.


#69541 05/12/02 06:18 PM
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Then there was the low-paid functionary who took care of horses for people who needed that service. There was a famous doctor so named. Can you remember it?


#69542 05/12/02 06:25 PM
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wwh writes:

Then there was the low-paid functionary who took care of horses for people who needed their services. There was a famous doctor so named. Can you remember it?

All I can think of is:

stable boy ... Nope, no Dr. Stable Boy
groom ... Nope, no Dr. Groom that I know of
ferrier ... Nope, no Dr. Ferrier that I know of

Hey! Define "low-paid"!

Beast regards,
Wordworried


#69543 05/12/02 06:41 PM
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Dr. Doolittle?


#69544 05/12/02 07:15 PM
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Dear WW: Dr. Osler was a Canadian who taught at Johns Hopkins. In WWI, families of wounded Canadian soldiers were greatly relieved by a telegram saying their son had been seen by Dr. Osler. That was all they needed to be sure he was well cared for. But the name is a variant of "hostler". My grandfather kept four horses for making house visits. When my father was small, my grandfather had an hostler who lived in a small room in the attic. One of the mementos of his stay was a dozen or more phosphorus matches in a little ceramic saucer with an integral cup with millimetre raised ridges close set, with a second chemical to help phosphorus match ignite. Smokers who used the match sticks for toothpicks, and carried them in their mouths for extended periods developed a nasty lesion called "phossy" jaw. That was also fate of many workers who licked tiny brushes to put phosphorus on watch dial numerals to make them legible in dark.


#69545 05/12/02 07:22 PM
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Dear wwh,

What a treasure trove of information is in your paragraph about matches! You've lit a flame or two in my brain...

My great grandfather was a country doctor, and, the classic ending to a country doctor's life, he died of pneumonia contracted after getting off his horse to cross a creek in Dinwiddie on a bad winter's day...Dr. John Chambers, buried out in the family graveyard beyond the grove. I've got his dictionary!!! And his grammar text, which has all kinds of clauses identified that we never heard about in school.

Book regards,
WW


#69546 05/12/02 09:03 PM
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#69547 05/12/02 09:13 PM
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A truly lovely story here:

The French found the odor of [the original fricton-matches] so repellent that in 1830 a Paris chemist, Charles Sauria, reformulated a combustion compound based on phosphorus. [But] Dr. Saura ... but unwittingly ushered in a near epidemic of a deadly disease known as "phossy jaw." Phosphorus was highly poisonous. Phosphorus matches were being manufactured in large quantitiles. Hundreds of factory workers developed phossy jaw, a necrosis that poisons the body's bones, especially those of the jaw. Babies sucking on match heads developed the syndrome, which caused infant skeletal deformities. And scraping the heads off a single pack of matches yield enough phosphorus to commit suicide or murder; both events were reported.

[Finally,] the first nonpoisonous match was introduced in 1911 by the Diamond Match Comapany. ... And as a humanitarian gesture, which won public commendation from President Taft, Diamond forfeited patent rights, allowing rival companies to introduce nonpoisonous matches. The company later won a prestigious for the elimination of an occupational disease.


Diamond simulateously solved another problem. The Sauria formula had a very low ignition point and lit at the slightest friction; many fires were ignited by rats gnawing on match heads at night. The new Diamond compound had a much higher ignition point and a taste entirely unattractive to rats.


#69548 05/12/02 10:19 PM
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Isn't Ted going to write an amusing story about Phossy/Fosse and Matches?


Blazing regards,
WordWatcher


#69549 05/13/02 12:20 AM
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Bill:

With all due respect, I don't think you're right about the phosphorus on the watch dials. If I correctly remember a parent's telling me during my childhood, the people w4ere painting radium onto the watch dials. The radium was causing cancers in the lips, tongue, jaw and perhaps esophagus.

TEd



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The radium was indeed radioactive and induced cancers of the mouth and lips, as well as other head and neck cancers in the women who painted the dials. Radium also can cause cancers of the bone because it is absorbed into the bone like calcium.


#69551 05/13/02 01:23 AM
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Dear TEd:Besides radium, there are several other methods of making "glow in the dark" watch dials. There are various non-radioactive phosphorus compounds that will glow in the dark after being exposed to light. Some modern compounds can glow for 10 to 15 hours after a relatively short exposures to bright light.
Tritium, like radium, is radioactive, but it is much safer. Tritium, a form of hydrogen, has a reasonably
short 12 year half life so it doesn't have the long term dangers that radium has, and it decays into
harmless helium. The beta particles that tritium gives off can not even penetrate the outer layer of dead skin on your body, let alone the watch crystal and watch case.


#69552 05/13/02 03:17 AM
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Sir William Osler was not just a famous physician at Johns Hopkins. He was one of the original four members of the faculty of the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine at its founding (the others being Drs. Halsted, Welch and Kelley). Osler was the chief and, along with the others, revolutionized the teaching of medicine. It was these four doctors who got medical training away from an apprenticeship program and into rigourous academic training with practical work with the patients in the hospital, to which the med. school was attached. They also developed the system of internship and residency. Osler was the author of a textbook which was a compendium of medical scholarship and practice at the time. Halstead, who taught and practiced surgery, was the inventor of many surgical procedures, most notably the radical mastectomy which, although a cruel procedure, saved many women from death by breast cancer. Kelley was a gynecologist and surgeon and the inventor of the Kelley clamp, among other things. Welch was the pathologist; JHU Med school library is named for him.


#69553 05/13/02 03:49 AM
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It was these four doctors who got medical training away from an apprenticeship program and into rigourous academic training with practical work with the patients in the hospital, to which the med. school was attached. They also developed the system of internship and residency.

And I hold them personally responsible for all my pain.




#69554 05/13/02 04:58 AM
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Now, back on thread: Anybody know where I can find a decent slide rule maker? How abut a buggy whip shop? Blacksmiths are pretty well marginalized. Whalebone corset makers are hard to find. Even vacuum tubes for radios are now specialty items.


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#69556 05/13/02 09:55 AM
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In reply to:

most notably the radical mastectomy which, although a cruel procedure, saved many women from death by breast cancer


Cruel procedure? Are you saying that the physicians were sadists? It's the cancer that's cruel. The operation was merely the way to deal with the problem with the least overall pain and anguish. The radical mastectomy isn't used as widely now, but at the time they were certainly doing the best they could on the information they had. It's hardly cruel.


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#69558 05/13/02 11:10 AM
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Sorry, Max. I will try to do better--sure isn't intentional and have been trying to do better since you pointed out the problem in the first place.

Very humbly yours,
Wordwind

PS: I've gone through several threads now trying to find the one in which I messed up. Haven't found it so far. Please PM me if you get a chance, and I'll at least delete it.


#69559 05/13/02 12:13 PM
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Iron works (custom wrought iron) is a still a curiously big business in NYC-- custom iron gates, window gates, decorative wrought iron elements.. results in several iron works in ever borough of NYC! (they don't call themselves blacksmith, but they do the same job, custom fabricating from raw iron. ) like coopers, they hang on.

and NYPD alone has enough horses to have a full time farrier on staff! there are stables uptown, and downtown, and in Queens, and Bronx.. there might be police stables else where (brooklyn/staten island)

there are plenty of public stables too, again, every borough has at least one, some several, riding academies, where you can stable your horse, or rent one to go riding. so i suspect there is a least one, or two private farriers -- not to mention the ones at the race tracks.

SUNY Westbury, has an equestian program,* and all of Long Island's north shore has horses.. (i live in queens on the north shore (of Long Island Sound)
the Long Island part of the North shore has a lot of money, new and old.. (see the movie Sabrina-either version) and lots of horses--and some farriers.
*but the only school(i know of) to train to be a farrier, is in Kentucky.


#69560 05/13/02 04:31 PM
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It was these four doctors who got medical training away from an apprenticeship program and into rigourous academic training with practical work with the patients in the hospital, to which the med. school was attached. They also developed the system of internship and residency.

And I hold them personally responsible for all my pain.


Doc! Thanks for the best laugh in a week!




#69561 05/13/02 04:37 PM
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How about corsetiere?
The woman who made corsets in early days and in later days knew enough about the intricacies of underwear to recommend a brand of girdle that fit you and also could measure you for a bra that did not ride up, bunch, or hurt after a work-day of wearing!




#69562 05/13/02 04:49 PM
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Reminds me of the story of the little girl who walked into a drugstore in the early 1900s. She said to the druggist, "Do you fit trusses?"

He said, "Why, yes, I do. Why?"

"She answered, "Please wash your hands and make me a milk shake."




TEd
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Wow, large cities still have'm. (corsetiere) next time you plan a trip to boston, check a directory first..

my sisters (who all bear an anatomical resemblance to Dolly Parton, some thing i do not) all get custom bra's.. as does my neice. (my daughter had me for a mother, so she is only normally big busted..and goodness knows, even that didn't come from her fathers side of the family.. who are all small breasted. )
nothing is made in my sisters sizes, they have normal bra's altered to fit. they claim, though expensive, is worth it, because A) bra's are comfortable, B) they don't stretch out of shape, and they last longer.


#69564 05/13/02 05:21 PM
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The person who rode in the back of an early steam automobile and kept the fire going had a title that is in common use today but who has a distinctly different job although it is still done in automobiles.


#69565 05/13/02 05:22 PM
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Dear TEd: the specialty of making trusses must at best be obsolescent. Most hernias get surgically
repaired.


#69566 05/13/02 05:37 PM
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Dear Faldage: I was sure the word "chauffeur" had something to do with making something hot.
So your steam car could have two chauffeurs, one to steer, and one to keep boiler going.
chauffeur


SYLLABICATION:
chauf·feur
PRONUNCIATION:
shfr, sh-fûr
NOUN:
One employed to drive a private automobile.
VERB:
Inflected forms: chauf·feured, chauf·feur·ing, chauf·feurs
TRANSITIVE
VERB:
1. To serve as a driver for (another). 2. To transport in (a motor vehicle); drive:
chauffeured the guests around town.
INTRANSITIVE
VERB:
To serve as a driver for another.
ETYMOLOGY:
French, stoker, from chauffer, to heat, stoke, from Old French chaufer. See
chafe.


#69567 05/13/02 06:56 PM
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So your steam car could have two chauffeurs

That it could, but the word he's thinking of is "fireman."

Edit: uh, no it's not. I just read the whole sentence, rather than just part of it, and he was thinking of chauffeur, which has allowed him and Dr. Bill to have a nice lil' ol' fight agin' - jist like old times.

#69568 05/13/02 06:57 PM
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your steam car could have two chauffeurs

Nope. It just had the one, the one in back that stoked the firebox. The guy up front was called the driver or something like that.


#69569 05/13/02 07:53 PM
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I just thought of a dandy. When street lighting lamps burned oil, the lamps on the poles
had to have a guy come with a ladder climb up,put in the oil, and light it. The old lamplighter.

Hey Faldage: you're being more unobliging than usual.


#69570 05/13/02 08:08 PM
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more unobliging than usual

What? The guy in back stoked the fire. You supplied the etymology your own se'f. The guy in front had nothing to do with the heat so no reason to call him a chauffeur. The job title got transferred when the original job disappeared.


#69571 05/13/02 08:12 PM
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There was a popular song about "The Old Lamplighter" (but I like Tom Lehrer's parody better.

Alfonso was the towns' LampLighter. Every evening, just before it
got dark, he had to take his ladder, and his matches, and his lamp
oil, and light every street lamp in Villa Macaroni. It was a very
important job, because if he didn't get the lamps lit, then all the
people would not know which way to walk, and the horses would
pull their buggys down the wrong streets. It would be very dark!


#69572 05/13/02 08:49 PM
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Dear Faldage: your glasses need cleaning. The etymology of "chauffeur" says it was early
applied to stokers. So your steam powered vehicle, for instance one of the early fire engines,
could have two chauffeurs, one to drive, and one to stoke. Stoke that up your back door.


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When I was a small, every spring a horse drawn haywagon stacked high with wooden chairs and ladders would come into our driveway. The driver had spent all winter up in New Hampshire making them, and kept going south through MA until he had sold them all. I still remember seeing a child's rocking chair way up top, and teasing my father until he bought it for me. I'd still have it, except that my wife gave it away. One of the few times I really resented her being generous. That old guy worked hard for a living. Damned few craftsmen
willing to work that hard for so little money. I marvel that his horses were equal to it.


#69574 05/13/02 10:17 PM
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In our neighborhood, up through the World War II era, electric refrigerators were few and far between. Most families had an icebox in the kitchen. Twice a week the iceman cometh. Each house would place a card in the front window to signal the ice truck crew to deliver a block of ice. Ice from the river was cut into blocks during the winter and taken to the icehouse, where it was insulated with sawdust, thereby lasting all summer.


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Dear slithy: Were you living in Florida when you had harvested ice delivered? Even in MA where I lived, there were some winters when ice did not get thick enough to be worth cutting. I knew one handsome young man who delivered ice. I could readily believe he had more offers of payment in kind than he could accept. Alas that such a lusty livelihood should no longer be available.
I remember how wonderful it was when we got our first electric refrigerator. I didn't have to drink milk that had started to sour.



#69576 05/13/02 11:52 PM
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No, Dr. Bill, this was in Maine. There was plenty of ice to be had there. I've sometimes wondered if, in those day, ice was shipped to places where it would not be available locally.


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<<the guy up front had nothing to do with the heat>>

The guy in the back probably dropped out when the guy in the front hit the gas. That is, to give the internal combustion engine gas is equivalent to throwing coal in the firebox of a steam engine. Of course, it's just a guess. There is, incidentally, a wonderful sequence with chauffeur and driver together in the same cabin at the opening of Renoir's "La Bette Humaine."

As to lamplighters, Dr. Bill, the old (converted) gas lamps with attached iron wrungs still stand on the pedestrian crossing of the Brooklyn Bridge.


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ostler: the low-paid functionary who took care of horses

"Fergus the Ostler" is a character in the hilarious movie The Court Jester, starring Danny Kaye.

Bean, you'll recall, referenced this movie back at
http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=58403

#69579 05/14/02 02:53 AM
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From "The Highwayman," by Alfred Noyes:

And dark in the old inn-yard a stable-wicket creaked
Where Tim the ostler listened; his face was white and peaked;
His eyes were hollows of madness, his hair like mouldy hay,
But he loved the landlord's daughter,
The landlord's red-lipped daughter,
Dumb as a dog he listened . . .





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#69581 05/14/02 04:18 AM
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Once again, Geoff, you clearly live in a different world than I do. Blacksmiths, and farriers, are still doing a very good trade in horsey parts of the world.

Around here, farriers, yes, but blacksmiths, no. Oh, sure, there are the ornamental iron shops such as Troy mentioned, but they hardly compare to the old fashioned smiths. Just TRY to get them to make you a set of ice tongs! However, there is a resurgence in glass blowers, some of which are not just artsy-fartsy types, but makers of high tech stuff.

As regards chauffers and stokers, it is common parlance in these parts to refer to the non-steering partner on a tandem bicycle as the stoker.


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#69583 05/14/02 04:46 AM
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For centuries there was the practice of farmers coming into the towns, villages, and cities to empty urban outhouses of their nightsoil, as it was called, to use as fertilizer for their crops. As this free service wasn't always guaranteed, there were very ambitious men who, for a fee, would provide this service regularly to the aristocratic and wealthy and then turn around and sell it for a small fee as fertilizer to the farmers as well. Don't know what these gentlemen were called, though, except for smelly...or how 'bout septic couriers?


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Another one which I imagine must be obsolete except in wine making regions is the 'cooper' - the man who made the barrels.


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Here is a link to "Ice Industry" with pictures of cutting the ice etc. Dear Slithy: I am positive I read that ice was actually shipped to India to make the maharajah's martinis.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/detr:@field(SUBJ+@band(Ice+industry+))




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In my boyhood, junkies were guys who came around to buy scrap iron and other stuff. In those days scrap iron was badly needed to start off blast furnaces to turn ore into molten iron. Now the process has changed and scrap iron is not needed, so its value has dropped so low you have to pay somebody to take a junk car off your hands instead of getting a hundred bucks for it.


#69587 05/14/02 02:16 PM
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Really? i am surprised to hear that.. some 10-15 years ago, there was a well reported theft in NYC-- someone stole a building (a cast iron building) for the scrap metal..


#69588 05/14/02 03:08 PM
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What did they call the little boy who pumped the bellows on those old tracker-action organs? That occupation is bound to be obsolete now with electric bellows...

Bellows regards,
WordWeimar


#69589 05/14/02 03:17 PM
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Another one which I imagine must be obsolete except in wine making regions is the 'cooper' - the man who made the barrels.

The maker of arrows is the "fletcher", I believe.


#69590 05/14/02 03:19 PM
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the little boy who pumped the bellows on those old tracker-action organs?

Boy.


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I have a special term for the person on the back of the tandem. CRAZY!

The person on the back has no control at all, and must have absolute faith in the ability of the driver, who controls the steering and the brakes. Some years ago I was on a group ride called Ride the Rockies (6 days totalling 361 miles across several very high mountain passes). On the last day I was descending Loveland Pass, exhilarating in the thrill of doing 56 mph (the fastest I've ever gotten my bike) when I heard a high-pitched scream behind me. Then I felt a whoosh as a tandem roared past me at a bit over 70. The scream I heard was from the stoker, a female, who repeated over and over as they rode out of sight, "I'm seeing a lawyer tomorrow. Tomorrow, do you understand me? TOMORROW!"

Apropos of nothing, I was stopped once for doing 32 mph in a 15 mph school zone. I begged the cop to give me a ticket and he refused. Said not giving me a ticket was punishment enough.



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#69592 05/14/02 04:43 PM
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There are still quite a few coopers in NYC, I believe, where they make the huge water barrels that sit on top of a great many buildings in the city. They are reservoirs for firefighting, as I understand it, and are still required by city code. Of Troy may know more.

When I was a very young lad we had a neighbor in rural PA who was a tinsmith. His name was Mr. Dietzel, probably couldn't read or write, but he used very large tin cans to make household items. My brother still has a watering can that is a series of conic sections soldered together at odd angles. The mathematics of such connections are very complex, apparently, and this old guy did them by eye and by hand. This is truly a lost art.



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#69593 05/14/02 04:50 PM
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Whaler. In the early 1800's every New England seaport had whaling ships. It is hard to imagine anybody being willing to spend five years at sea, horribly hazardous, terrible tablefare, slow cycle of monotony alternating with terror. And a pittance at payoff. But many young men had not better choice.
My uncle told me a yarn about two brothers in Belfast, ME. They were digging potatoes when one of them threw down his fork and declared he would never dig another potato so long as he lived. He went down to the harbor and signed aboard a whaler. He was gone twenty years. When he got back to Belfast, he saw his brother digging potatoes in the same spot. His brother looked up, and said: "Where are you going, Jake?" Jake blew up. "You goddam Yankee! After twenty years you might have asked where I've been!"


#69594 05/15/02 02:20 AM
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In fact, it wasn't always a little boy. A large organ needed a full grown man to pump it, often the village idiot.


#69595 05/15/02 03:16 AM
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I have a copy (reprinted) of a famous mid-17th century schoolbook, J.A.Comenius' Orbis Sensualium Pictus, written in English and Latin (it was used to teach Latin). It has a lot about tradesmen. Some selections:

The plowman yoketh oxen to a plough and holdeth the plow-stilt in his left hand and the plow-staff in his right hand ... The reaper sheareth the ripe corn with a sickle, gathereth up the handfuls, and bindeth the sheaves. The thrasher thrasheth corn on the barn floor with a flayl, tosseth it in a winnowing-basket ... The mower maketh hay in a meadow, cutting down grass with a sithe and raketh it together with a rake, he maketh up cocks with a fork & carrieth it on cariages into the hay-barn.

The neat-heard calleth out the heards out of the beasthouses with a horn and driveth them to feed.

The fowler maketh a bed, spreadeth a bird-net, throweth bait upon it, and hiding himself in a hut he allureth birds by the chirping of bird-lures ...

Flax is tied to a distaff by the spinster, which with her left hand pulleth out the thred, and with her right hand turneth a wheel or a spindle upon which is a wharl.

The webster undoeth the clewes into warp, and wrappeth it about the beam, and as he sitteth in his loom, he treadeth upon the treddles with his feet.

Linnen-webs are bleached in the sun with water poured on them till they be white. Of them the sempster seweth shirts, hand-kirchers, bands and caps.

The box-maker ... maketh tables, boards, chests etc.
The turner, sitting over the treddle turneth with a throw, upon a turners bench, bowls, tops, puppets and such like turners work.

The roper twisteth cords of tow, or hemp (which he wrappeth about himself) by the turning of a wheel. Thus there are made, first cords, then ropes, and at last cables. The cordwainer cutteth great thongs, bridles, girdles, sword-belts, pouches, port-mantles etc. out of a beast-hide.

The printer hath copper letters in a great number put into boxes. The compositor taketh them out one by one and (according to the copy, which he hath fastened before him in a visorium) composeth words in a composing-stick, till a line be made, he putteth these in a galley, till a page be made, and these again in a form, and he locketh them up in iron chases, with coyns, lest they should drop out, and putteth them under the press. Then the pressman beateth it over wih printers-ink by means of balls, spreadeth upon it the papers, put in the frisket, which being put under the spindle, on the coffin, and pressed down with the bar he maketh to take impressions.



#69596 05/15/02 03:29 AM
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tinsmith


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On the last day I was descending Loveland
Pass, exhilarating in the thrill of doing 56 mph (the fastest I've ever gotten my bike) when I heard a
high-pitched scream behind me. Then I felt a whoosh as a tandem roared past me at a bit over 70. The
scream I heard was from the stoker, a female, who repeated over and over as they rode out of sight, "I'm
seeing a lawyer tomorrow. Tomorrow, do you understand me? TOMORROW!"


Ah, the poor lass wasn't aware that a disc brake can be fitted to the rear hub and CONTROLLED BY THE STOKER! I don't have such a brake on mine, however. [evil grin e] And, of course, Dracula rode a tandem with Bram Stoker.


#69598 05/15/02 10:50 AM
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From byb's long selection: Flax is tied to a distaff by the spinster

Is there something more here, connecting with the modern usage of those terms?


#69599 05/15/02 11:21 AM
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Oooh, Byb, what a wonderful thing to share--thank you!!
the plow-stilt in his left hand and the plow-staff in his right hand
'Stilt' and 'staff'? Were these just the left and right handles of the plow, or did one or both have a specific function? My uncle's plow was very simple: just the frame, the turning fork, and handles; no brake, or anything like that.

Capital Kiwi
, does any of this sound familiar to you?
The printer hath copper letters in a great number put into boxes. The compositor taketh them out one by one and (according to the copy, which he hath fastened before him in a visorium) composeth words in a composing-stick, till a line be made, he putteth these in a galley, till a page be made, and these again in a form, and he locketh them up in iron chases, with coyns, lest they should drop out, and putteth them under the press. Then the pressman beateth it over wih printers-ink by means of balls, spreadeth upon it the papers, put in the frisket, which being put under the spindle, on the coffin, and pressed down with the bar he maketh to take impressions.








#69600 05/15/02 02:41 PM
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Here is a URL with many pictures about home spinning: I could not get a clear idea of function of distaff.

http://www.cyberport.net/museum/pages/themes/LHD1.html


#69601 05/15/02 03:51 PM
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Among the "rude mechanicals" Shakespeare introduces in A Midsummer Night's Dream are: Quince, a carpenter; Snug, a joiner; Bottom, a weaver; Flute, a bellows-mender; Snout, a tinker; and Starveling, a tailor. Can't imagine making a living mending bellows. As I recall, the itinerant travelers in Ireland are also known as tinkers. M-W defines a joiner as a person who constructs articles by joining pieces of wood.


#69602 05/15/02 04:11 PM
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Dear slithy: just as there are obsolete occupations, there are obsolete occupational injuries. There used to be a medical diagnosis "Weavers bottom" in which long hours of sitting on a hard bench caused pathologic changes in ligaments and tendons, scarring and calcification, ultmately iincapacitating.
There was an analooous "Coachman's knee" from many hours sitting on carriage seat bracing posterior of knee against the front part of the seat.


#69603 05/15/02 04:40 PM
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distaff
SYLLABICATION: dis·taff
PRONUNCIATION: dstf
NOUN: 1a. A staff that holds on its cleft end the unspun flax, wool, or tow from which thread is drawn in spinning by hand. b. An attachment for a spinning wheel that serves this purpose. 2. Work and concerns traditionally considered important to women. 3. Women considered as a group.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English distaf, from Old English distæf : dis-, bunch of flax + stæf, staff.

Flax is harder to spin than wool the distaff helps to manage the work. (it hold the tow (raw material)
Wool get rolled into little fluffy sausages.. but flax is is long fibers, more like hair than anything else.. and evenly pulling down strand to work them in, is difficult.
(the site that is linked to above also shows a niddy noddy.. i have one of those!)



#69604 05/15/02 05:06 PM
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Capital Kiwi, does any of this sound familiar to you?
... Then the pressman beateth it over wih printers-ink by means of balls,

Apparently, CapK left out a few details in last year's travelog.


#69605 05/15/02 05:50 PM
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Dr. Bill: I'll just bet that maharajah, propped up on a pile of pillows with his tinkling martini, would be the least likely to develop Weaver's Bottom. Do you suppose that particular condition brought Shakespeare to call his character Bottom the Weaver? He does make an ass of himself as the play progresses.


#69606 05/15/02 06:21 PM
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Dear Slithy: you can count on it, that maharajah had a gorgeous collection of beaver bottoms.


#69607 05/15/02 06:27 PM
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Actually, all of those terms, except one (coffin) were part of my previous life but two.

And I did all of those things as a humble apprentice mechanical. Then the Bottom fell out of the market with the introduction of not-so-humble non-apprentice computers ...

Printing presses up until the beginning of the 19th Century were unreliable beasts, generally using the screw principle to apply pressure to a block which impressed the type on to the paper. I suspect that block was the aforementioned coffin, but that's only a guess.



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#69608 05/16/02 08:27 PM
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I found a long list of Colonial occupations, and picked out one: Ale Draper. =Ale house keeper.
What did "Draper" mean in this connection?


#69609 05/16/02 08:38 PM
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Ale Draper. =Ale house keeper.
What did "Draper" mean in this connection?


House keeper.


#69610 05/16/02 08:42 PM
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Dear Faldage: please tell us how "draper" got to mean "housekeeper"


#69611 05/17/02 01:17 PM
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how "draper" got to mean "housekeeper"

From your original mention

Ale Draper. =Ale house keeper.

Dividing each side of the equation by Ale

Draper. =house keeper.

Dividing each side of the equation by .

Draper=house keeper

QED


#69612 05/17/02 01:27 PM
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Excuse a tangent. When I read this ale draper term, all I could see was some drunk draped across a barrel of ale, three sheets to the wind--all three of 'em draped across the same barrel...that is, if ale came in barrels?


#69613 05/17/02 01:27 PM
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Well, Jackie, I have no idea how it happens sometimes--rarely--but I was completely unaware of the fact that I'd duplicated the post till I just read the duplication today. It must have to do with my (and others') rapid-fire typing and clicking that somehow evades the "Sorry, you cannot post this post because it already exists" guy who lives inside of AWAD with his little banner on-the-ready to wave on your screen.

#69614 05/18/02 10:56 PM
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Okay--can someone please tell me how it is possible to make a post that, as far as I can tell, is an exact duplicate of another? The one time I tried, and another time by accident, I got the "We cannot proceed--post already exists" page.


#69615 05/18/02 11:43 PM
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I have made duplicate posts many times, because I did not get message post had been entered. In most every case, however, when I saw there were duplicates, I could delete one, until someone else had made a post.


#69616 05/19/02 06:12 PM
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I imagine must be obsolete except in wine making regions is the 'cooper' - the man who made the barrels.
----------------------------------------------------

Sorry, but right over the road a piece from me is a full time cooper ... and his barn is chock-a-block full of handsome barrels and other nifty "containers." The trade's been in the family for generations and Dad & Sons now operate it very successfully, thank you very much!

As for real blacksmiths, there's one working at Strawbery Banke in Portsmouth with his hammer, anvil, and all that, not to mention a great pair of shoulders!





#69617 05/19/02 07:14 PM
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I had an ancestor who was called a "brazier", but actually made small cannons. When he sold them to the British, instead of to the Patriots, the Patriots destoyed his shop, and he had to flee to Halifax. When I was young "Go to Halifax!" was a euphemism for "Go to Hell". Incidentally, he gave his daughter when she married, a place in Pembroke, MA where his son-in-law ran a forge for turning bog ore into iron for his father-in-law. Bog ore comes from rain leaching iron out of land around a shallow pond, and precipitating. I read that a man could get a ton of the ore out of the pond a day, but what a job it must have been to get it to the nearest forge, which had to have enough water power to operate the bellows necessary to make the charcoal burn hot enough to reduce and melt the iron. I don't know occuational name for guy who made the charcoal. He had to dig an enourmous pit,fill it with wood, and cover it with sod, leving only a chimney. And he too had a long trip to the forge, though the charcoal would have been far lighter than the bog ore.


#69618 05/22/02 04:21 PM
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It just occurred to me that there are occupations without any names. Some years back I was spending a few days in Surfers Paradise, south of Brisbane, and had occasion to take a walk on the beach.

I was admiring the relatively unclad ladies when my attention was drawn to an elderly gentleman who had a fat-tired cart with several very large pressurized bottles containing suntan lotion. Half-naked women were paying him to spread this lotion on their nubile bodies. I started to ask him if he needed an apprentice when my then-wife stopped me with a strong word or three.

And now, as I get ready to retire I find myself looking for a job like that, but I can't figure out what the name of the occupation is so I can write to the Australia immigration people about my plans. And my mail addressed to "Lucky" in Surfers Paradise just comes back unclaimed.



TEd
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