#59187 - 03/02/02 10:47 AM
Re: Dialects
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
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but any that vehemently agree?
It's contrary to my constitution to be vehement, but I certainly strongly support the principle underlying your suggestion, Musick.
I would not recommend trying to teach anyone to speak a different dialect, but I am very much in favour of young people being made very aware of the different ways our language can be used, and that a different way of speaking does NOT mean that the speaker is of less (or more) value than any other because of it. It is, as we are aware here, the content of speech that is important and should be the basis of any judgement of worthiness.
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#59188 - 03/02/02 06:48 PM
Re: Dialects
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
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Actually, I think that teaching dialect (elocution?) is a complete waste of time. First of all, you will never succeed if the pupil doesn't have an ear for the different rhythms of the various dialects. Secondly, what is the purpose? My goddaughter, bless her little cotton socks, goes to a plutey English public school (read "private", USns). She is taught by teachers who speak RP, she is surrounded by pupils who speak various levels of RP and she can do a great imitation of RP herself; she has the music. But when she's at home, although out of her mother's earshot, she reverts to her normal accent which is pretty damned broad Northamptonshire, dropped aitches and gees all over the place. In other words, she's faking it at school. I think that as long as one has an understanding of the meanings of the colloquialisms inherent in the brogues or patrois which one comes into contact with there is no real need for people to learn to speak "differently". Except for two particular cases. Brum and Geordie should be stamped out, by force using mounted troops if necessary. They are taking "viva la difference" just tooooo far! 
_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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#59191 - 03/04/02 08:27 AM
Re: Dialects
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
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OK, Musick - I'm definitely prepared to agree vehemently with you, given your gloss to what you first said.
It'll be interesting to find out what happens to CapK s god-daughter when she grows up. My two were born and bred in Northampton, and had very broad Northamptonian accents (which would be significantly different from CapK's g.d. if she lives, as I suspect, in Wellingboro - that's a whole twelve miles away!!) My wife and I speak a London debasement of RP (yes - it is the same sort of thing as SE) - guess how my kids speak now, in their early thirties? Yep, you're right - not a trace of N'thampton, me dook, but a flattish Estuary English.
My daughter did live in London for about six years from age eighteen, but my son never has done - and they both speak the same.
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#59192 - 03/04/02 08:36 AM
Re: Dialects
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/23/00
Posts: 2204
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Except for two particular cases. Brum and Geordie should be stamped out, by force using mounted troops if necessary. They are taking "viva la difference" just tooooo far! (translation of foreign terms:
Geordie= someone from Newcastle-on-Tyne or the language they speak
Brum= BirminghamNo, CapK - can't agree with you there. Geordie's a bit like Guiness ( apart from being of just as thick a consistency and just as dark  ) - it's an acquired taste - but it is a very colourful language which would be great to write poetry in, if only other people would be able to understand it. As for Brum, it is absolutely the best language for telling jokes in; the oxymoron between the sadness of the accent with the gaiety of the laughter invoked is nothing sghort of marvellous! (Brummies make b****y good drinking partners, too! - it's a laugh a second with them - almost as good as the Cockneys.)
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#59193 - 03/04/02 04:12 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
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#59194 - 03/06/02 11:15 AM
Re: Dialects
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member
Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 144
Loc: London, UK
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But do they speak 'Estuary'? Somehow I doubt it, as that implies mixing up tenses and persons, replacing 'th' with 'f' (as in free instead of three). I would suggest that they probably speak a more modern version of RP (Received Pronounciation). There's been much in the press recently about how the Queen has changed how she speaks and that the Beeb no longer stick strictly to RP. To my mind, it's just that RP is moderating/modulating slightly.
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#59195 - 03/07/02 08:41 AM
Re: "modern RP v Estuary Eng
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
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>I would suggest that they probably speak a more modern version of RP
Have you noticed that our Tone (Tony Blair for furriners) when making off the cuff remarks likes to use a bit of "modern PR" - sounds pretty estuary to me. I think that he likes to model his conversation style on the classic after-match interview, "Well, the lads had it all to do but in the event they pulled out all the stops, the other side were sick as parrots, we were pretty gobsmacked by the whole thing ....".
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#59196 - 03/07/02 09:38 AM
Re: "modern RP v Estuary Eng
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member
Registered: 12/13/00
Posts: 144
Loc: London, UK
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and even more irritating - have you noticed that he can't string more than about three words together without breaking off for emphasis?
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