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#54508 - 01/31/02 07:37 PM Re: Someone we know needs a boat
stales Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 866
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
"John Hanson"......a deliberate slip Max??

Let's maintain objectivity a bit longer....did your rellies make application from afar in 1947 or did they turn up unannounced on NZ soil?

carengineswarmingup stales


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#54509 - 01/31/02 07:51 PM .
Max Quordlepleen Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409

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#54510 - 01/31/02 07:56 PM Re: Someone we know needs a boat
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
such a difficult question! i work across the street from one of the US immigration offices.. the line to see an immigration officer is snaking, and about half a mile long.

in past years, they used to put up a temprory shelter in the winter months, so those waiting for hours on end had some protections from the elements. but since WTC, they don't want enclosed, hard to patrol spaces close to federal building-- so everyone waits out in the cold.

both my parents are immigrants.. both brother in law and daughter in law are both lucky enought to have green cards, but a first cousin, and his jamacan wife are both illegals. in my family, immigration is still an ongoing process!

each year, it seems for the past 20, US laws governing immigration get nastier, and more difficult. and the lastest scare has resulted in round ups!

i like to think of my country as being open to all comer, to being a haven to the downtrodden. yes, we have to take some care, and not open our borders to criminals, but lately, i think it is we who have been acting criminally..

i can't begin to comment on what is happening half way arround the world.. i still haven't sorted out the facts of my own country.. and all too often i am acting on feelings..

_________________________
my other obsession

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#54511 - 01/31/02 08:34 PM Illegal aliens
consuelo Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 2636
Loc: Caribbean
For most of the time that I spent living in Mexico, I was an illegal alien in that country. Thank goodness no one ever decided that I needed to be stored in a detention camp for as long as it took my family to come up with the necessary bribes. It was perhaps easier for me since I was married to a native Mexican and did not hold or seek any employment in Mexico. Yes, my marriage entitled me to legal documents, for a price. We decided our childrens' needs surpassed those of the corrupt burocracy. Rules? We doan need no steenkin' rules!"


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#54512 - 01/31/02 10:28 PM Re: Boat people and detention centres
hev Offline
addict

Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 477
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Hear Hear Max! (or is it Here here ... to cross threads )

It's a tough issue. I am sympathetic to the humanitarian plight of the people who come to our shores seeking refuge, and also have to consider our environmental and economical resources to be able to cope with them. True - Australia is a large country, but we are largely desert, but I suspect this is overlooked by a large portion of the extreme left who like to comment on this matter.

Glad to hear that you USns aren't judging us (thanks, of troy) ... our media here would like us to believe that the whole world condemns Australia for what is happening. And there's a good portion of Australia that condemns the situation...

And on the note of NZ's handling of the Tampa refugees? I'm really impressed... Saw a doco on A Current of Air (Affair) a little while ago. You Zilders certainly made us look bad (and we know how much you L-u-r-v-e doing that ).

Me - I guess I'm sitting on the (hopefully not barbed wire) fence... Ouch!!

Hi stales - fellow Aussie!!

Hev

"friend you haven't met yet..."

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#54513 - 02/01/02 12:34 AM Re: Someone we know needs a boat
Bingley Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
I'm fine. I live in one of the higher parts of Jakarta, but some people at work have got water in their homes up to their waists, a friend of mine was stuck in her 11th floor flat for 36 hours (safe enough but the road outside was under 4 feet of water), and getting from A to B is even more of a problem than usual. Most offices have people arriving very late because of transport difficulties(there was a story in yesterday's paper, I think it was, of one woman who set out to drive to work at 6 a.m. and gave up all hope of getting there at 12 noon and went home) or just not coming in at all because they're dealing with the effects of the floods at home (well with water lapping at your front door and no way of knowing whether it was going to rise or not would you want to leave your kids?).

The waters have receded a little bit in most places but everyone's keeping a wary eye on the heavens. Jakarta is a very low-lying place and a lot of what is now the city used to be swamps. There are two main causes of the problems: deforestation in the mountains south of Jakarta, and too many buildings where the water should naturally go, and which were originally supposed to be water catchment areas.

As for the discussion that stales's misapprehension sparked off [steps on soapbox] it's a problem that's not going to go away. Given the improvements that have taken place in transportation over the past couple of centuries, there are always going to be people who want to up sticks and go and live somewhere else and can do it legally or illegally. Some of them are no doubt genuine refugees from wars, persecution, natural disaster etc. Others just think they can have a better life (however defined) somewhere else (CK and I, for example). Unfortunately no country can apply an open door policy and so they try and pick and choose who they let in.

The movements that cause most anxiety seem to be those from poorer countries to richer ones. Although poorer countries must bear some of the blame for their current state of affairs, it's not all their fault (and anyway the people wanting to move haven't generally had much influence over their countries' policies). The richer countries of the world (and I'm speaking generally here rather than pointing the finger at any particular country) could do more to help the poorer ones -- not by continual handouts but simply by adjusting some of their policies in trade for example to make them fairer, and thus give more people the chance to earn a decent living at home.[steps off soapbox]

Bingley
_________________________
Bingley

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#54514 - 02/01/02 07:03 AM Re: Someone we know needs a boat
Capital Kiwi Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
Just ducked in for a quick look from work at lunch time, and saw Bingley's comment: Some of them are no doubt genuine refugees from wars, persecution, natural disaster etc. Others just think they can have a better life (however defined) somewhere else (CK and I, for example).

Speak for yourself, Bingley! I didn't come here seeking a better life. I just came here for a change!

_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...

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#54515 - 02/01/02 07:11 AM Re: Someone we know needs a boat
Bingley Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/09/00
Posts: 3065
Loc: Jakarta
So for you, CK, a change must represent something better than the routine.

Bingley
_________________________
Bingley

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#54516 - 02/01/02 03:29 PM Re: Someone we know needs a boat
Capital Kiwi Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
... of socks ...

_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...

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#54517 - 02/01/02 07:04 PM Re: Someone we know needs a boat
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888
What, you never changed your socks in NZ!!! And SWMBO stayed with you all those years. Her new nickname is now SSWMBO, or SaintSWMBO.


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