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Carpal Tunnel
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The current Archaeology magazine has a great short piece entitled "Savoring the Grape (for Romans, wine was the elixir of life, from cradle to grave)" by Stuart J. Fleming. I was going to put up the URL at Archaeology.org because it's a great historical/linguistic/culinary read, but unfortunately this piece is only in abstract instead of full text, so I'll have to excerpt it. There were words for degrees of partying in ancient Rome (and Greece), and their correct usage was essential for the socially astute. Convivium and comissatio in Rome and symposium in Greece designated different types and times of the feasting. "...While etiquette may have been on shaky ground in a typical Roman wine bar, it was upheld during the convivium, a dining event structured around the family and a circle of friends. In Roman literature, the luxury usually associated with this kind of setting brings to mind the Greek symposium from which it derived some of its structure. But their common threads are somewhat superficial. While the Greeks went out of their way to ensure social equality among their invitees, a Roman patron would without hesitation host a convivium for his inferior amici and clientes--associates, long-standing or briefly met, who might be the means to business or political advantages. Unlike the symposium, which was in essence a drinking bout that followed a meal, the convivium was decidedly a banquet, with emphasis on richly prepared and novel food, the partaking of which was a pleasure--a conviviality--that would be accompanied by a generous flow of wine.
Two lengthy works of the second century A.D., Plutarch of Chaeronea's Table Talk and Athenaeus of Naucratis' Banquet of the Philosphers, provide us with a detailed insight into the way that a convivium might proceed throughout the evening. The convivium was intended to be a joyous event. Invariably there would be music, and at livelier gatherings there might be acrobats and mock gladiatorial battles.
The convivium also was a place to be philosophical about matters of substance, even if, in the sober light of morning, such matters shrank somewhat in consequence. In this setting folks might get caught up in a discussion of the fables of Aesop as parables for real Roman life and of how best not to give offense to a freedman guest whose memories of enslavement were scarcely a few years past. Amid all this chatter and banter would have been endless ponderings on the purpose and effects of wine in Roman society. The issue of the appropriate dilution of wine was also debated intensely, often with brilliant scholarly recourse to literature, past and near-forgotten. Athenaeus makes it clear that greek custom was to mix three parts of water to one of wine--thus, in social shorthand, a "Triton"--and it looks likely that Roman wine connoisseurs went along with that ratio. But one of Plutarch's guests, Aristion, argued humorously in favor of a three to two mix, claiming that it would be in perfect harmony with the fifth concord of a lyre, to the the tune of which so much drunken revelry took place. [my note: were these people serious about their wine, or what!  --and continuing with the paragrah preceeding the first] Roman taste, at least during the Republican and Imperial eras, leaned heavily toward sweeter wines which, because they were made from later season grapes, tended to be quite alcoholic. The Romans took their lead from long-standing Greek custom, adding at least some measure of water to the wine or, in elite circles, a few ladles of melting snow. The degrees of dilution applied probably depended on the setting. While entertaining friends within the home, around quarter strength would be normal; among a raucous crowd in the city's tavern, perhaps dilution was forgotten altogether.
The convivium, with its emphasis on food, simple entertainment, and fluid conversation was one thing; the comissatio was quite another. This was truly a Roman drinking party. It most likely took those guests who were still around at the end of a convivium far into the night hours and assuredly put them deep into their cups.As you can see there's not much historical detail on the comissatio, I guess, because, they usually forgot most of the details! And we thought we had the market cornered on partying back in the '60's and '70's...we weren't even close, we were just sloshes! These folks were convivial artistes! If anyone has any more to ask or offer on the linguistic juxtaposition of these words, or knows of words in any language, dead or alive, that similarly denote the nuance of partying, please feel free.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear WO'N: I applaud the ancients' diluting the wine. It would have meant that the guests would be much slower to become intoxicated, and much less prone to injury to the brain or liver. Having food with liquor also is wise. Fat in the stomach causes duodenal sphincter to remain closed until fat in the intestine has been absorbed, then sphincter relaxes again briefly. So sudden drunkenness is avoided. Behaviour is much less likely to become objectionable. Tongues are pleasantly loosened, but not too loose. And hangover is much less likely to be troublesome.
I have always found it surprising that eating while reclining was the custom. I have never been able to enjoy food in bed, no matter how sick I am. I need the assist of gravity to get food down and keep it down.
The development of distilled liquors is one of the worst catastrophes to afflict the human race. Few if any of the brain damaged alcoholics I had on my wards were wine drinkers. Alas, I do not enjoy alcohol in any form.
I regret I have no words to contribute.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Unlike the symposium, which was in essence a drinking bout that followed a mealBeen to a few symposiums which happened just like that. Of course, there were meetings which we had to attend first, but I guess that's just a drift in meaning. At least we've kept the essence!  Great one, oh Great WoN! 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
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Well, then, CapK, I suppose the supposition that your symposiums were meetings is exposed!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yep, but using back formation, I guess you could call the typical Zild party a pissupium or a pissupsymposium. And they would be held in pissupinaria. What ho, peas and carrots!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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For more on who ate what when in the Ancient Mediterranean see Reader's Guide to Meals, Food and Table Fellowship in the New Testament: http://www.nd.edu/~jneyrey1/meals.html Bingley
Bingley
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old hand
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old hand
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One of the least known landmarks in Sydney (but one of my favourite) is to be found in the grounds of Old Government House in Parramatta. Built around 200 years ago in the colonial style, OGH is a pleasant enough place in itself - but not the subject of this discussion. A hundred yards or so from the main building is a construction which 99,999 out of 100,000 people would consider to be a gazebo. Six or eight sided (I forget which), it consists of a roof, supporting posts, rails and a mortar over stone floor - about 20 feet across. A gazebo right? Wrong - here's the clue: the margin of the floor is raised a couple of inches, so the whole thing is like a very shallow bowl........ Modelled upon Roman structures, the construction is a vomitarium!! To be used by the amici after a convivia or a comissatio. stales Post Edit: Just found a pic on the web of the Parramatta vomitarium!! http://www.parramatta.net/parra3.htm Note that it's now referred to as "The Governor's Bath House". Yeah Right!! Why would the Queen's representative in Australia have an open air bath house so far from the main building in the prudish Victorian times? The Guide on the tour I went on years ago were quite adamant it was a vomitarium. Believe what you will.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Remember the story, I think by Balzac, of the King putting croton oil into the wine served, and then preventing guests from leaving until they were all in dire straits, so that they all perched on the first wall they came to. What should the name for such a wall be?
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old hand
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old hand
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> What should the name for such a wall be?
The neighbour's fence?
stales
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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That's why many fences have sharp pointed pales. In story the wall apparently was only waist high and flat topped. But if the story had been true, local gossip would have immortalized it. And a basket of bumf would have been worth a fortune.
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