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Joined: Dec 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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the new use of the plural pronoun ... There are plenty of us old-timers who hate this usage...
Thou art one, Byb? YART
Ænigma likes Olduvai for old-timers. Talk about being Anthropologically Correct!
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 60
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 60 |
I think that gender differentiation is necessary. I am female and I don't like that fact to be ignored. What I do object to is treatment that is sub-standard because of my gender.
The contention of feminists rejecting the gender-specific article is that gender differentiation must occur before discrimination can set in. Eliminate one prerequisite and you've stalled the discrimination process.
I come from a 93% female profession (nursing) where gender association , (not outright gender distinction) dissuades more men from entering our ancient and esteemed calling. A male colleague of mine suggested, not entirely tongue-in-cheek, that a name not synonymous with breastfeeding would enhance the percentage of men attracted to our profession. Ah, the power of language.
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Posts: 1,289
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289 |
Brother Faldage inquireth, "Thou art one, Byb [who disdaineth 'they' for 'he']?"
Yea, marry, forsooth, that I be. Fight the good fight for your rights, my ladies faire, and I'm with you. But ye wenches that would brawl in the streets, aroint ye! And yart me no yarts! Have respect to the integrity of our ancient and honourable tongue!
Here endeth the BYB indeterminate pronoun rant, once for all.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
that a name not synonymous with breastfeeding would enhance the percentage of men attracted to our profession. Good heavens, Teresa--I'll bet he's right! Did he have any suggestions? (Special for BobY) And if any man wants to offer a suggestion, they can see BYB. [scampering hurriedly out of reach e]  Sorry, Sweetie, I just couldn't resist an opportunity like that.)
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 60
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 60 |
No, Jackie, he didn't. "Nursing" has been so long associated with caregiving, and accepted as the title of our profession, that maybe what should change is the association of nursing with breastfeeding. This might be easier to achieve. We already have breastfeeding, suckling and lactating to describe the act of giving, producing or receiving human milk, but we have no synonyms for nursing as a profession.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,605
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
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A male colleague of mine suggested, not entirely tongue-in-cheek, that a name not synonymous with breastfeeding would enhance the percentage of men attracted to our profession.
I have got to pass that on to my wife, who teaches nursing.
aside: how different the above sentence would be without the comma!
About 20 years ago, the elderly Father who was then President of DePaul University commented to her that Nursing must be somehow less than the school's other academic fields, in that the others do not end in -ing: there is no "sciencing"; "englishing", etc. He was brought up short when someone pointed out "engineering".
he would not have understood had someone mentioned "frenching"
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Of course, getting away from the digressions, we could simplify the language even more by taking all gender references out, particularly pronouns. Sentences would read like "The woman went shopping and it bought a new pair of knickers". Perfectly logical, and totally understandable, I would have thought. And that would get rid of the whole gender-related shambles!
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 60
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 60 |
But, Capital Kiwi, Pooh-Bah that you are, what if she took her dog?
"The woman and her dog went shopping and it bought a new pair
of knickers".
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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which would brings us closer to japanese.. japanese pronouns are gender neutral. and just as japanese speaking english tend to say fright for flight they also tend to say "the man went shopping and she bought a new suit" She is close to sho-- which is an honorable term for a man, (as in Sho gun) and Sho can also be a mans name.
the problems doesn't come in japanese, because they use one pronoun-- for men, women and dogs..
and teresa, when the dog starts carrying a credit card, i will start to wonder who it was that was buying the the knickers, but i realize it could be confusing. my sister has to pay strict attention in conversational japanese to keep track of who is it in any given conversation!
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Oh, hell, why bring logic into it? Ever heard of context? Okay, Teresa, here goes:
Your original sentence: The woman and her dog went shopping and it bought a new pair of knickers
You will retrospectively note, of course, that you used a gender-laden pronoun - her.
My perfectly logical response. Rewrite (correcting your pronoun on the way) as:
The woman(1) and its(1) dog(2)* went shopping, and it(1) bought a pair of new knickers.
Now, isn't that much more neat and tidy and totally understandable? Why can't all English be as clear and easy to follow, hmmm?
* Although dogs going shopping are definitely a rarity, whichever sex they are. Or so I believe. Well, in New Zealand anyway. And I haven't noticed many ... erp, any ... here in Pommyland, either.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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