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#42126 09/18/01 10:31 PM
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just to add a bit to the AHD etymology, witness OED2
The colonel was so called, because leading the little column or company at the head of the regiment’ (Skeat). The early Fr. coronel (whence also Sp. coronel) was due to the dissimilation of l–l, common in Romanic, though popular etymology associated it with corona, couronne crown. It is still dialectal (see Littré), but was supplanted in literary use, late in 16th c., by the more etymological colonnel; and under this influence and that of translations of Italian military treatises colonel also appeared in Eng. c 1580.

it seems that what we've got here is orthography which reverts to the original etymology and orthoepy which may trace to the French affectations of the Court.

as to lieutenant, OED becomes dog-gone whimsical:
The origin of the btype of forms (which survives in the usual British pronunciation, though the spelling represents the atype) is difficult to explain. The hypothesis of a mere misinterpretation of the graphic form (u read as v), at first sight plausible, does not accord with the facts. In view of the rare OF. form luef for lieu (with which cf. esp. the 15th c. Sc. forms luf-, lufftenand above) it seems likely that the labial glide at the end of OF. lieu as the first element of a compound was sometimes apprehended by Englishmen as a v or f. Possibly some of the forms may be due to association with leave n.1 or lief a.
In 1793 Walker gives the actual pronunciations as (lEv-, lIv"tEn@nt), but expresses the hope that ‘the regular sound, lewtenant’ will in time become current. In England this pronunciation (lju;"tEn@nt) is almost unknown. A newspaper quot. of 1893 in Funk's Standard Dictionary says that (lEf"tEn@nt) is in the U.S. ‘almost confined to the retired list of the navy’.]


(does the Brit. army have the rank of lieutenant colonel?!)

#42127 09/18/01 11:16 PM
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In the course of dicussion, we seem to have lost our "Re".
How, etymologically, did coronel switch to colonel?

It seems that what we've got here is orthography which reverts to the original etymology and orthoepy which may trace to the French affectations of the Court.
Or do we have orthoepy which reverts to the original etymology and orthography which may trace to the French affectations?

#42128 09/18/01 11:21 PM
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Keiva! you were supposed to take Faldage's AHD link, reprinted here with the usual lack of permission: Alteration of obsolete coronel, from French, from Old Italian colonello, from diminutive of colonna, column of soldiers, from Latin columna, column.


#42129 09/18/01 11:32 PM
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tsuwm: so the conclusion is that the french changed the Italian's L to an R; and then the English took the French version but altered it again (and coincidentally, altered it at the same letter, and changed that letter back to the original L again), while retaining the french pronunciation?

Granted that Faldage's source so claims, but does this seems a bit farfetched, absent a mechanism?

And also granted that (if Faldage's source is correct) my final surmise, in my prior post, was mistaken.

#42130 09/19/01 02:55 AM
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Keiva, it ain't that Simple. think about how non-standardized spelling was back when. I didn't think anyone really wanted this much detail, but. The two forms were used indifferently by Barret, Holland, Decker, and others; coronel was the prevailing form till 1630, but disappeared in writing c1650. Of 89 quots. examined before this date, 56 have coronel, 33 colonel, thus distributed: up to 1590 coronel 21, colonel 1; 1591–1630 cor- 31, col- 22; 1631–50 cor- 4, col- 10; 1651– cor- 0. In 17thc. colonell was trisyllabic, and was often accented (in verse) on the last syllable. But by 1669 it began to be reduced in pronunciation to two syllables, col'nel (according to Jones Pract. Phonography, 1701, ("kVln@l)), as recorded by Dr. Johnson 1755–73, and repeated without remark by Todd 1818; in Farquhar's Sir Harry Wildair (1701) it appears familiarly abbreviated to coll. But app. the earlier coronel had never died out of popular use; Dr. A. J. Ellis Eng. Pronunc. 1074/2 cites Dyche 1710 for ("kVr@UnEl), Buchanan 1766 for ("kO;nIl), Sheridan 1780 for ("k3;nEl) the pronunciation now established, though apparently not yet universal in 1816. and recall (from above) that the spelling colonel seems to have finally won out becuase of the etymological relationship to the leader of a column of infantry.

[Nothing is Simple]


#42131 09/19/01 04:43 AM
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So what about a Brevet Colonel?

(anything to get that 100th post!!)

stales


#42132 09/19/01 12:25 PM
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Member stales, congratulations, Sweetie.



#42133 09/19/01 05:41 PM
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Aha! So I guessed right on two points:
1) There's more to it that the American Heritage Dictionary's story; and
2) tsuwm can be relied upon to have the whole story for us.

Thanks, tsuwm.

BTW, is there a term for this kind of a situation, where two variants of a single word are competing within the language?


#42134 09/19/01 06:35 PM
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Re:BTW, is there a term for this kind of a situation, where two variants of a single word are competing within the language?

Normal?
see schedule, honor/honour, etc.. (getting thrown of net


#42135 09/22/01 05:39 AM
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Objection!

Faldage's original link to Bartleby is less than authoritative. It has this to say, emphasis added by me:

1a. abbr. COL or Col or Col. A commissioned rank in the U.S. Army, Air Force, or Marine Corps that is above lieutenant colonel and below brigadier general. b. One who holds this rank or a similar rank in another military organization. 2. An honorary nonmilitary title awarded by some states of the United States.

Very good. In one foul swoop, it grabs the word and claims it as an Americanism. So ... the British and French armies didn't have colonels earlier than 1776? Oh, my mistake. I should have realised!



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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