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#41451 - 09/12/01 11:19 AM Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
Starting this thread for discussion about remedy and/or respone.

“We will make no distinction between the terrorists
who commit these acts and those who harbor them.”
-G.W. Bush


This is a major policy change and signals the US will not only go after the terrorist but the country/countries that harbor him/them.
Security comment : I am one of the offenders when it comes to hating to check my baggage. I travel light and want to keep bag on plane ... but I really think that from now on carry-on, except for one small purse for women or, for men an attache case should be the limit for carry-on luggage. Both inspected before boarding. The Israeli Airline El Al has very strict rules about baggage and carry-on luggage ... perhaps we should take a leaf from El Al's book.

Obviously this attack need heavy financing .... my instinct is to "follow the money" and once found, seize it. Without the money ....

We hear on Boston TV that there is suspicion concerning several men who entered Canada, took the ferry from Canada to Maine then boarded a plane from Portland to Boston.






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#41452 - 09/12/01 12:30 PM Re: Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
TEd Remington Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 3467
Loc: Marion NC
Ann:

Yes, it is a major policy change and it is fraught with danger because it is a decision taken in a moment of passion -- understandable passion, but passion nonetheless, and it can actually have more far-reaching implications than did the triggering events.

From the moment I heard the first report of this dastardly act (series actually) I felt Osama Bin Laden was the most likely suspect. But on reflection he's not the only suspect. And quite possibly not the best suspect. I was struck pretty hard by a statement I heard during the coverage yesterday, "These people knew how to fly sophisticated passenger airliners. Where in Afghanistan can you get that kind of training?"

Certainly, unlike WW II kamikaze pilots, they didn't have to know how to take off, since someone else did that for them, but just as certainly they killed or incapacitated the pilots and took control themselves.

But they weren't perfect. One plane went down many miles from a target, and the one at the Pentagon actually hit the ground short and then bounced up and into the building. That probably saved a whole bunch of lives.

As usual, I've digressed.

Even if Bin Laden is behind this, the most logical conclusion is that the training was done elsewhere. And, in my mind, such sophisticated training implies the assets of a state government behind the scenes, probably actively involved. Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, and North Korea are the immediate candidates. But if the terrorists were trained in Libya at the behest of Bin Laden, do we become a rogue nation by squashing the Afghani Taliban? Personally I think the Taliban in and of themselves are beneath contempt, but it IS their country and they have a right to run it any old way they see fit. If the people in Afghanistan who don't like it don't do something to stop it, who are we or England or Australia or Germany to do something to stop them? But if Bin Laden is in their country legally and has done nothing against their laws, can we be morally right in punishing Afghanistan for actions Bin Laden has instigated in other countries?

Quoting someone else, "Revenge is best served cold."

In sorrow and in anger,

TEd

_________________________
TEd

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#41453 - 09/12/01 12:52 PM Re: Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
personally, I haven't got a clue. but I think we should all be interested in what the fourth estate is saying.
here's an early entry from the Washington Post:
http://msnbc.com/news/627549.asp?cp1=1


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#41454 - 09/12/01 12:55 PM Re: Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
inselpeter Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 2379
Loc: New York City
If the actions against us were intended--by a faction of madmen *not representative of Islam--to produce a conflict that could be defined as one between the Islamic world as infidels, then we are best advised to respond judiciously and with great restraint. A counter attack against this crime must be conducted in terms of the justice of civil-society, for it is civil society that is under attack. We cannot accept was has been thrust upon us with carnage and destruction in terms defined by our adversaries. To do so would be to hand them victory and threatens destruction beside which yesterdays would pale to vanishing. This is not a muslim assault against civil society. It was an action of madmen and fanatics. Terrorism, if it can be, must be ended, but not by perpetrating terror on others.

There can be no question that governments harboring criminals of this kind can and must be treated as criminal.

Any suggestion that we use nuclear weapons is, if real, insane and if in bluff, irresponsible beyond belief.

Any threat against civilian populations would be criminal.

The United States will need to respond. How, I do not know. And I worry that there is sufficient wisdom in Washington.



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#41455 - 09/12/01 02:56 PM Re: Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
The United States will need to respond. How, I do not know...

Follow the money trail. Somebody, some country, some group had to finance the attack.

I do not "blame" the Muslims ... nor do I believe any clear thinking person does ... it is a few ---i don't like to use the word but it fits here --- *dedicated, fanatic terrorists who perpetrated this senseless act against unarmed and innocent civilians.


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#41456 - 09/12/01 03:25 PM Re: Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Reprisal against Muslims in this country is insane and un-American. The terrorists were undoubtedly Muslim fanatics, but we too have religious fanatics. Thank God they have not committed any attacks outside this country - the bombing of abortion clinics here is bad enough. Timothy McVeigh could have turned his hate towards some other country. And it is quite possible that the terrorists were not sheltered where they trained. They would have had reason to fear being betrayed for a reward.


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#41457 - 09/12/01 03:46 PM Re: Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
Keiva Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 2605
Reprisal against Muslims in this country is insane and un-American.

Yes - but unless this country acts promptly and firmly, individuals will vent their frustrated rage on whatever targets they can find. If we truly want to forestall reprisals against the innocent, we must see strong reprisals against the guilty.


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#41458 - 09/12/01 03:57 PM Re: Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
Fiberbabe Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 771
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Yeahbut - the last time we acted promptly and firmly, anyone of Asian descent was promptly hauled off to an internment camp. No one needs to see that again either.


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#41459 - 09/12/01 04:09 PM Re: Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
Keiva Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 2605
the last time we acted promptly and firmly, anyone of Asian descent was promptly hauled off to an internment camp. No one needs to see that again either.

True; the best choice would have been our military response, but without our camps response.

BUT if you're not allowed to pick and choose and demand perfection, would you have preferred that we do both, or that we do neither?

The best choice should not become the enemy of the good choice.


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#41460 - 09/12/01 04:10 PM Re: Remedy/response, terrorist attack Sep 11.
inselpeter Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 2379
Loc: New York City
<<The best choice should not become the enemy of the good choice.>>

And the good choice should not become the enemy of the people.


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