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#41209 - 09/10/01 04:56 PM whinge vs. whine
Anonymous
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Whence the divergence of these two words (which both claim roots from OE "hwinsian")? I've never heard an American say "whinge", nor conversely a UKer utter "whine". Is "whine" exclusive to the US? Are there regions of the US that favor "whinge"?

Also, I believe "whinge" is aspirated when used in the UK; do Zildians/Australians pronounce it similarly (or is "whine" in use as well)? The H is quite clear when I pronounce "whine", but then I tend to similarly aspirate the Hs in "what", "which", "whether", etc. Is the more common USn approach to pronounce it exactly the same as "wine"?




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#41210 - 09/10/01 05:33 PM Re: whinge vs. whine
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Recently I have seen "whinge" in magazine ads, but could not tell where copy was written. I have never heard it spoken. My dictionary gives it, says it is British, pronounced "winj" I do not plan to use it.
I wonder if in UK dogs "whinge". I never heard one make the "j" sound.


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#41211 - 09/10/01 05:50 PM Re: whinge vs. whine
wow Offline
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Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
Whence the divergence of these two words (which both claim roots from OE "hwinsian")?

Interesting post Ghost. Welcome to the Board.
I thought whine was a sort of high pitched tone of voice that grates on one's nerves where someone goes on and on about something -- children are very good at it!
And whinge brought an image of someone flinching from doing something.
I hear whine in US and never hear whinge, but do see the word in Brit-locale books.

so now I know better ... or ??


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#41212 - 09/10/01 06:41 PM
Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409

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#41213 - 09/10/01 07:57 PM Re: whinge vs. whine
stales Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 866
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
Darn it Max!!! I was hoping to use the planeload of Poms joke!!

For the record, Ozzies tend to use "winj" (adj.) and "winja" (noun). I thought we'd regard "wine" as somewhat British - so was surprised to find it's the preferred form in the US. No aspiration used in OzEnglish - the shortest way to the end of the word/sentence is the best way!!

stales


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#41214 - 09/10/01 09:19 PM Re: whinge vs. whine
doc_comfort Offline
addict

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 618
Loc: Australia
We do have a tendency to(wards the use of) whinge here in Oz, but to my mind they have subtlely different meanings. To whinge implies to complain, usually about a specific circumstance, with the intent of causing something or someone to change because of your actions. To whine suggests making annoying complaints for the sake of complaining.

dc (now 2c poorer)


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#41215 - 09/11/01 06:13 AM Re: whinge vs. whine
rodward Offline
addict

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 609
Loc: Portsmouth, United Kingdom
To whinge implies to complain, usually about a specific circumstance, with the intent of causing something or someone to change because of your actions. To whine suggests making annoying complaints for the sake of complaining.
I agree with the good doc, but would add that whinging* is usually about trivial matters and often with no real expectation of change though the possibility is there - "Mum, why does my brother ALWAYS get the window seat?" - "Oh, stop whinging!".
It is usually only small kids (or adults behaving like them) that whine as doc says in a continous stream "I'm cold, aren't we there yet? How much longer are we shopping? I don't like this sweet, I want that sweet".
And dogs whine not whinge.

* or whingeing, to cross threads.


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#41216 - 09/11/01 06:47 AM Re: whinge vs. whine
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11610
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
* or whingeing, to cross threads.
Now, this is interesting. I had never heard of the word whinge before meeting people on this board, and in truth I'm still not sure how to pronounce it. But: when I first saw 'whingeing', my first response was, "No! The g before i can be soft". Then I immediately thought of the word
winging, in which, unless I have pronounced it wrong all my life, the two g's are pronounced the same.


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#41217 - 09/11/01 06:57 AM Re: whinge vs. whine
maverick Offline
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
Yes, I would largely agree with others so far. But there is a key difference, surely: whine specifically describes making a high-pitched sound, whereas whinge is to complain in a rather pathetic manner. So though a whinge may be uttered in a whining tone, a whining tone is not the same as a whinge: it is used synecdochally. Personally I would pronounce them as winj and wine.

I will be interested to hear more detail about the roots of the words, since an initial check also suggests that they are not quite so identical as originally suggested:

whine (hwîn, wîn)

v., whined, whin·ing, whines.
v.intr.
1. To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint.
2. To complain or protest in a childish fashion.
3. To produce a sustained noise of relatively high pitch: jet engines whining.
v.tr.
To utter with a whine.
n.
1. The act of whining.
2. A whining sound.
3. A complaint uttered in a plaintive tone.
[Middle English whinen, from Old English hwînan, to make a whizzing sound.]

whinge (hwĭnj, wĭnj)
intr.v. Chiefly British., whinged, whing·ing, whing·es.
To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.
[Dialectal alteration of Middle English whinsen, from Old English hwinsian.]

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.



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#41218 - 09/11/01 07:08 AM Re: whinge vs. whine
rodward Offline
addict

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 609
Loc: Portsmouth, United Kingdom
I had never heard of the word whinge before meeting people on this board, and in truth I'm still not sure how to pronounce it.
but heard a lot of whinging from the board as well.. Jackie

winj and winj-ing (like sponge is spunj) as opposed to wing and wing-ing. No modification of the soft or hard g by the addition of the -ing in either case.
Both whinging and whingeing are given in my POD.


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