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My friends, I am in search of British copies of the Harry Potter books in hardcover. We considered trying to order them online, but I don't like to order things from unfamiliar sites. Then I thought of you guys. I was wondering if someone from across the pond would be willing to obtain said items and ship them to me. (I, of course, would reimburse for the cost of the books and shipping.) Sorry to say that I've been away for so long. (At least Faldage seems to have fond memories of me.  ) It seems that school has become an all encompassing process. I try to check in from time to time, but seldom have opportunity to read or post much.
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Dear xara: I think you are really trying to do it the hard way. I have had very good luck buying books from Amazon. I have no idea how readily available the Potter books are at this time, but I believe the wait would be far less, and the paperwork much simpler. I suspect our UK friends would not find it easy to help you;.
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...but does Amazon handle the British copies?
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Pooh-Bah
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you can find most things used at abe.com
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You're right, tsuwm. I forgot there are some differences between the British and the American text. It didn't occur to me that she was specifying the British text. It would be unlikely that Amazon would have both.
But Amazon,UK would have the British text, and it figures that they would take U.S. credit cards, and be just as secure are the US Amazon.
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Otherwise, xara, I will be glad to sort it out for you (good to see you back). The only problem will be the freight, which tends to be disproportionately expensive and quite slow (but probably still just as quick as Amazon!). If you are interested, I can look up the details later today.
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At least Faldage seems to have fond memories of me
Who could forget "it doesn't taste right".
But don' be gettin' no funny ideas. Me'n AnnaS are a item.
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Guide re parcels freight: 2 services, 'standard' @ 5-8 days transit, 'economy' @ 28-30 days. Standard: 1kg=$23, 2kgs=$32, 3kgs=$41, 4kgs=$50 Economy: 1kg=$19, 2kgs=$26, 3kgs=$31, 4kgs=$36 Post turns out to be cheaper by some margin: 'small packet / printed papers' allows up to 5kgs at a cost of around $12/kg (linear in 5g steps). Catch 22: Slow Book To China (takes up to 12 weeks) 
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It seems that no one has an idea about what bad mails can be : if you send something by Italian mails... well, perhaps it will arrive quickly, perhaps it will arrive slowly, perhaps... it will not arrive at all.
No rules, just hope..
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>>>Dear xara: I think you are really trying to do it the hard way.<<<
yes, yes, I know. Here's why I've chosen this method:
1. I've had extremely bad luck ordering from unfamiliar sites.
2. If Barnes and Noble has a UK site I can't find it.
3. Problems with Amazon:
a. they are indiscreet with their mailing/customer lists. having recently been victim of fraud, I'm even more wary than ever about how companies choose to handle privacy issues.
b. we (my husband in particular) do not support companies with software patents.
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maverick! How kind of you!
Are your $'s US dollars or UK pounds?
Oh How exciting! I weighed 4 average sized hardcover books and got about 7 lb (3kg) on my bathroom scale. I can handle paying about $31 for shipping.
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Hi Xara,
Why don't you give Waterstone's a try - www.waterstones.co.uk - I had a quick look and they seem to have the full selection in paperback, hardback and audio tape.
If you don't want to trust your credit card to the site, then look up the contact details for their Gower St, London store (it's the biggest one). I'm sure they'd happily do transactions over the phone.
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Dear xara: Sounds like good old Maverick is going to solve your problem for you. But, since you asked:
If Barnes and Noble has a UK site I can't find it.
I looked, and Barnes and Noble is affiliated with Bertelsmann (BOL) and they do accept several credit cards and ship overseas. You could get details from service@bol.com
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Xara - I found a hardcover UK First Edition of Goblet of Fire for $75 at http://www.powells.com. They're the first place I'd trust in executing secure e-commerce ~ never a problem. The big question is whether you want to go for the US rare book price and get the bonus cache for the same price as the shipping from the Isles!
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My $ are USn greenbacks and my £ are overvalued segments of a Euro  Let me know if you want me to do anything, xara but don't tell Jackie, it's got to be kept a complete secret!- and if so, which titles.
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Re: ordering from Waterstones in London A friend of mine in the US did exactly this. He called them up and paid for his books over the phone. I am not sure whether they can ship them themselves, because this friend knew somebody who was travelling from here to the US and he got this person to pick them up and post them once they were in the US. You could simply ask. Oh, and this brings up the question, how different are the British and North American versions of Harry Potter anyway? 
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Very in ways that matter to this board!
lots of words have been changed-- and these words sometimes change the whole character of the scene--
one i remember reading about was "crumpets" to "english muffins"-- and there are so many things wrong with this change.. i suppose you can buy store baked crumpets.. but similar to biscuits in US-- crumpets are fast, and easy to make--and when made well, heavenly.. english muffins, well are nice, but hardly compare.. besides, english muffins get toasted.. and are more often thought of as a breakfast food.. crumpets are closer to what is sometime sold in US bakeries and coffee shops as "tea scone"-- which i always think are way to rich and cake like -- compared to the scones my nana made..
this is one one change... and look what it does-- multiply by a 1000 over the course of the series.. its like reading 2 different sets of books...
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how different are the British and North American versions of Harry Potter anyway?
I've heard (on the radio) that they replaced British words and phrases with American equivalents. Things like "cellotape" are changed to "Scotch™ Tape", because apparently the publishers think American children are too stupid to work out those things for themselves. That is an insult to American children, as far as I am concerned. I read plenty of British stories as a kid, and when there was an odd word usage, I either looked it up or guessed it from context. God forbid the children be allowed to THINK while they're reading. [scowl]
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i suppose you can buy store baked crumpets... ot witters on.
there you go again.... <eg>
-joe friday, g.p.*
*reagan patrol
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>>>how different are the British and North American versions<<< They're different enough that the title of the first book is different. The US version is called The Sorceror's Stone, the British The Philosopher's Stone. One thing in particular that I want to know about is the use of units. Harry frequently states that they must be "miles under the school" in hidden caves and tunnels. Kilometers seems like a much more reasonable statement than miles. I'm curious what the original text says. There were other things that just struck me as a bit odd which made me wonder what was actually written. (like, did they change football to soccer?) see also: http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=2548&page=&view=&sb=&vc=1
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Xara,here's a thought.
With Visa or American Express card in hand, place a call to Harrod's, Knightsbridge, London, and ask for book department, order and charge. They mail. Do not belive there is any customs duty on books but you might want to check.
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Xara:
I can't help you with the Harry Potter books, English version, but I can tell you something that only two people in the world know: the name of the final Harry Potter book. Ms Knowling is an old friend of mine, and she has agreed that since Harry will be married with children in the final book it only makes sense to call it "Harry, Pater Familias."
TEd
NO part of the foregoing is true except the first phrase.
TEd
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"miles under the school"
I grew up in a metric world, but we still use Imperial exaggerations.
It's miles and miles from here to home!
I drank gallons of water this afternoon.
That guy must be ten feet tall!
I just dragged out tons of garbage.
A one-ton truck.
etc. So (since we were a British colony and must have metrified around the same time, it was mid-1960's here), it is possible that Harry Potter did say "miles".
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TEd: You gave yourself away when you referred to the author as Ms. Knowling (some old friend if you've got her last name wrong!)... besides, your reputation precedes you. FB
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>You gave yourself away when you referred to the author as Ms. Knowling (some old friend if you've got her last name wrong!)... besides, your reputation precedes you
Hey, I said no part of the foregoing is true. Rowling? Something like that.
TEd
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Now, now, Fiberbabe and TEd, let us have no Rowling.
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Having bought a few things online, I would probably trust using a credit card online more than over the phone. Amazon.com and the other online book retailers have privacy policies and it's all automated. No human involvement. Over the phone you have the chance of the person being untrustworthy and using your info. The chances are slim, but you never know. Online you know that there's no middle man.
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I would probably trust using a credit card online more than over the phone. Amazon.com and the other online book retailers have privacy policies and it's all automated. No human involvement. Over the phone you have the chance of the person being untrustworthy and using your info. The chances are slim, but you never know. Online you know that there's no middle man.
~~~`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And there you have a perfect illustration of the Generation Chasm!
I'd rather take a chance on one person than put info into any internet vehicle, no matter how secure they say it is! Ha!
Or, should my paranoia becoming especially active I would ask total cost and send a written order and a return address that is an anonymous Postal Box or an office address enclosing either a Bank check or International Money Order in payment ...
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In reply to:
Oh, and this brings up the question, how different are the British and North American versions of Harry Potter anyway?
I've been wondering recently not just about the Harry Potter books but whether other British books are changed much in American editions. I noticed that "Captain Corelli's Mandolin" has been changed to "Corelli's Mandolin" for some reason (they don't have captains in the US???? [furrowed brow emoticon]). Does anybody know of other changes that have been made to British books are across the Atlantic?
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"Captain Corelli's Mandolin" has been changed to "Corelli's Mandolin"
Are you sure about that? I've only seen it with the Captain part.
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That's the title it's arrived here under. I'll check again where it was published. The copy I was given in the UK a couple of Christmases ago was "Captain Corelli's Mandolin."
Bingley
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My book is called "Corelli's Mandolin" while the movie is called "Captain Corelli's Mandolin". My book was a gift from a friend, and I think they got it from some US website, although I'm not sure.
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I mentioned this long time ago -- I had a friend get me a copy in London and title was "Captain Corelli's Mandolin." Later, raving about the book to my Librarian she said "We have that only here it's 'Corelli's Mandolin'!" So there you go. All this talk about differences makes me think I should borrow the library's US copy and check .... nah!
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Bean, I do the same. I work in metric, but I use imperial "measure exaggerations" freely, without even knowing how much they amount to! At the end of the day, I have only a vague idea how long a mile or a foot is. Fortunately, the new "European" Britain has had to turn bi-measural, so I can manage just fine. My British friends get all miffed about it, claiming that since I am in Britain I should learn to measure in imperial! Well, they can sit around and wait a bit longer for that to happen...
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Don't worry about it Marianna! We really are increasingly bi-metric, to the extent that when I am buying wood, it is usually "3 metres of 4 inch by two inch," or some such blend. My wife buys curtain material by the metre, but its width is still measured in inches.
I am told, BTW, and I have no idea of the truth of this, that the construction industry in Scandinavia finds that the metre is an inconvenient measure, so have invented a measure which is one third of that length - in other words, about the same length as the imperial foot.
The secret lies, I guess, in the fact that the old measures were based on human activity and human dimensions, so fit humans well. For instance, the League (as in "seven-league boots") was the distance that a man and pack horse could walk in one hour, therefore varied in linear distance from one terrain to another. (In the fairy tales, of course, the person with seven-league boots could complete a day's journey in one step!) It has died out, I suppose, because we no longer need that sort of measure - it is a matter of how many miles we do in an hour rather than hours to complete a mile!
But metric measurements are based on an estimate of the world's circumference made in the 1790s! What sort of basis is that, I ask you!
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It has died out, I suppose, because we no longer need that sort of measure - it is a matter of how many miles we do in an hour rather than hours to complete a mile!
But metric measurements are based on an estimate of the world's circumference made in the 1790s! What sort of basis is that, I ask you!
Ah, yes--change: further evidence that (linear) time has passed! [naughtily cross-threading e]
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My "measure" is my open hand . I know that it is 20 centimeters, and I often measure everything around me in this way - tables, furniture, public bathrooms...
In fact, I am very interested in
- how small you can build a comfortable house
- which are the correct measures for ergonomic pieces of furniture .
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a US dollar bill is 6 inches long (actually 6 1/8 inches) but close enough for a rough measurment.
as for
which are the correct measures for ergonomic pieces of furniture --
until human come in one size-- how can any one size be ergnomic?
my parents are very short-- (Father 5.1, mother 5.2)-- and they often had problems buying furnature. Dining room chairs were often too high for them.. and couches were too deep..
of course, those of us who are normal sizes (or at least normal height) found their furniture way too low, and too shallow.. My favorite chair as child was our wing chair-- i didn't feel like my knees were in my chin when i sat in it.. my mother hated that chair-- when she sat in it, her feet didn't touch the floor!
the japanese, seem to have mastered small living spaces.. and one trick they sometimes use, is high ceilings..
big spaces, with low ceiling seem cramped. -- the NYC subway has some.. ceiling heights of just over 2 meters, so that very tall people feel they have to crouch. and even though there is a lot of area, the low ceiling is very uncomfortable.. even for me, and i am in no danger of hitting my head on the ceiling.
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But metric measurements are based on an estimate of the world's circumference made in the 1790s! What sort of basis is that, I ask you!
Some while back, I read a story, only vaguely remembered, about a town in England that had posted their speed limit signs in km/hr. When asked if this meant that England was at long last converting to the metric system, somebody (local official, mayhap? the Queen?) is reputed to have said "Do you honestly think we'll ever adopt a measurement system invented by a people that have to say 'three twenties and seventeen' for 77?"
But the way weight and volume correspond in the metric system sure is useful and cool. Makes it easier to guess how much my hot tub weighs when full, which is very important, for reasons I'll not go into here.
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but weight and volume (for water at least) also have a neat ratio in non metric measurements--
"a pint's a pound, the whole world round" -- so gallons * 8 (8 pints to a gallon) and have the weight in pounds.
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a pint's a pound, the whole world round
Great! But can you measure your hot tub in inches and tell me how many gallons it holds?
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no-- but when i bought my bathtub-- i did buy it by volume-- 20 some odd gallons-- i wanted a larger one.. but i did the math--and it would have strained my 30 gallon hot water heater..
Most tubs are sold with there capacity at stated.. as are kitchen sinks.. and lots of other things that hold water.
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a pint's a pound, the whole world round
Wait, this is about the weight of a pint, not the price? I've been robbed!
But anyway - what I was getting at was what Señor Faldaje meant - metrically, you can take linear measurements of a body of water (and water's a pretty good approximation of density if you're working with most other liquids) and come up with the weight of the water. I think this is so cool, when it first dawned on me, I was struck dumb. And those nearby were struck with gratitude.
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After reading about the hot tubs, I must use the bathroom, think less of relaxing and more of work, and get 8.34 #/gallon out of my head. Thanks a lot!
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My "measure" is my open hand . I know that it is 20 centimeters, and I often measure everything around me in this way - tables, furniture, public bathrooms...
That's great! I do something similar (my pace is 2-paces-equals-five-feet) that works for measuring a room or something bigger, but is of no use for smaller things. I like your idea.
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But metric measurements are based on an estimate of the world's circumference made in the 1790s! What sort of basis is that, I ask you!
Metric's units may be arbitrary, but they're far easier to use. In my field (real estate), can you imagine the difficulty of calculating with these units: 1 acre = 43,560 sq.ft. = 1/640 of a square mile?
The old system of rods and chains was easier (10 sq. chains = 10 acres), but I've never seen in used in documents later than about 1910.
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If I extend my right arm to the side, the distance between my left shoulder and the tip of my right-hand fingers is a metre, give or take a couple of centimetres. This is a quickie way of measuring fabric, for instance, and a handy reminder when mentally visualising smaller measures. Imperial measures may be more "human" (though basing your system or the size of someone's foot, leg span or walking speed, be they who they may, seems a bit dodgy to me ), but they are not as easy to work with as metric. As Hyla says, the correspondence between weight and linear measures is incredibly helpful.
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Another handy built-in measuring device that came free with your body (Plus, if you're born in the next twenty minutes...) is the fact that your "wingspan" (the distance from tip of middle finger to tip of ther middle finger with arms outstretched is (in most people) almost exactly equal to your height. This provides another convenient way to measure rooms, furniture, etc. without having to lie down (and for six-footers like myself the math is easy, too!).
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"a pint's a pound, the whole world round" -- so gallons * 8 (8 pints to a gallon) and have the weight in pounds.
I've heard the pint's a pound phrase before, but with completely different meaning. it's used to remember how many ounces in a cup of liquid or in a pound of weight. there are 16 oz in a pound and 16 oz in a pint (or 8 oz in a cup).
have you tested the pint/pound method of measuring the weight of a liquid? is it accurate? have to be careful about that. water's pretty dense. it most likely wouldn't work for cooking oil or alcohol even if it did work for water.
EDIT
i checked the math, and a galon of water does weigh 8 pounds. that also means that one oz of water weighs one oz. that's very useful information to have. Thanks Helen!
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Water isn't all that dense. As I posted earlier, the weight of water is 8.34 #/gallon. A lightweight oil would be aroun 9-10 #/gal. Really dense (other than my boss) would be Mercury - I believe it approaches 30.
Just a little science on a Friday afternoon.
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>Water isn't all that dense. As I posted earlier, the weight of water is 8.34 #/gallon.
I dunno; 8.34 octothorps per gallon seems pretty dense.
(a very little humor for a Friday afternoon)
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In the good old days :
when you went to an ice cream parlor to buy a pint of ice cream you actually got a pint ... you knew because the server filled the container then put it on a scale to be sure it weighed a pound.
Have *you weighed a so-called pint of ice cream or yogurt from your local hand-packed shop lately? Sur-priiiise!
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there are in US, and in EU, and else where, i suspect, standard for what is a Pint--by volume of icecream.
first off, it shouldn't weight a pound, since heavy cream is lighter than water.. and if its good ice cream, it should be about 50% heavy cream. secondly, good ice cream is airy- even home made ice cream is made in a "churn" which beats air into the cream mixture as it chills and finally freezes it. (otherwise it is quintesently frozen..see another thread..)
I am sure the FDA, or some other Government agency has the standards somewhere-- Consumer reports might have them too, as background for a report on icecream.. but as i recall, 1 gallon of ice cream is supposed to weight something like 53 oz.. not 64 oz. and melted be equeal to 58oz.. by volume..(since as it melts, the air tends to get lost..
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Water isn't all that dense. As I posted earlier, the weight of water is 8.34 #/gallon. A lightweight oil
would be aroun 9-10 #/gal
Dear Chemeng1992: Your figures indicate that the specific gravity of oil is greater than that of water. How come oil floats on water?
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A lightweight oil
would be aroun 9-10 #/gal
olive oil is about .92 g/cm3 (or 7.68 lb/gallon), which indeed appears to be slightly less dense than water. 'course, the difference in molecular structure (disparate polarities) also keeps oil and water from playing well together =)
hi, tom ~ Yes, dear, i'm paying the bills this afternoon... just taking a wee break =)
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I just came across this thread, it took nearly an hour to read in threaded mode (flat mode went all weird after the first page), so a) apologies to any contributors that I have missed b) sympathy to anyone new to the site with less than 1,000,000 hours of spare time on your hands, you will never be able to read it all. I’m saving some of it for my retirement (in twenty years time, unless I win the lottery first).
A few points that don’t appear to have been fully answered:
1. Xara – did you get your books? If not, I’d be happy to help.
2. First editions – I wouldn’t get too excited about the “Goblet of Fire” first edition. Almost everyone I know has one (many of them are signed as Jo R is a local) – see the numbers mentioned on the Bloomsbury (UK publishers) website:
How many UK first edition copies were printed of the Harry Potter books?
First hardback print runs: Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: 500, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets: 10,150, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban: 10,000, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: 1 million.
http://www.bloomsburymagazine.com/harrypotter/muggles/faq/faq.asp
3. Differences
Here are a couple of points from a “chat” with the US publisher:
Lake Jackson, Texas: How come the UK versions of the Harry Potter books are shorter?
Arthur Levine: If you look at the way the books are typeset, you can see that the UK versions put less space between the lines. They have also not chosen to include chapter opening decorations (like the ones another reader praised by Mary Grandpre). We like our design, and think it's beautiful and a pleasure to read.
Carlisle PA: In volume 3 page 1 ,why was the name of the author of History of Magic changed from Adalbert Waffling to Bathilda Bagshot in going from the British to American Editions ?
Arthur Levine: Because we must have caught a typographical error that (apparently) the British editors missed. In SORCERER'S STONE (p.66) The author of A HISTORY OF MAGIC is identified as Bathilda Bagshot
http://www.usatoday.com/community/chat/0628levine.htm
3a. Miles – Harry would say miles because we measure distances in miles and our road signs give speed limits in miles per hour. The fact that we buy our petrol in litres and we can’t work out miles to the gallon without hard sums or that we can buy two metres of 48” wide fabric does causes occasional consternation but be muddle along (or is that muggle along).
3b. English muffins – Helen of Troy, is completely right. Late one night in another time Anna S and I compared US and UK editions and worked that out for ourselves. AnnaS had heard me mention that I had never seen an English muffin before my trip to the US in the eighties and there it was in print. Helen is right the two are not interchangeable and I think was the result of over-enthusiastic translation by the US editors. At the time of publishing the first edition they were really looking at a book published by an Edinburgh-based single parent, hoping for a few sales to allow her the time of work to write the second in the series. She now says that she would never have let them change the title if the power relationship had been a little less one-sided.
3c. Soccer – I suspect that our edition says football, you’ll have to give me a reference to check it, we do use soccer as a term, especially in circles where rugby is considered to be more important that footie (I wonder if the down under edition mentions footie – I’d love to see an Aussie/Kiwi translation). Part of the international acclaim that books have received must be down to the fact that most terms, like Quiddich are international.
I am in the process of collecting the US editions, so send me a private mail if you need any help with getting the UK editions.
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Jo, Yes, maverick sent me the books, thanks. I mentioned it in a different thread, I think. I've read the third and am working on the fourth book in the UK edition. I don't have US copies of those so I haven't compared them. I've not had time yet to reread the first two. I have a harder time justifying not doing homework for a book I've read once than for one I haven't. I have not noticed a single occurrence of metric units in the UK version, much to my surprise. Shows you how little I actually know about some things.  Football is used where an American would say soccer. Sherbet Lemon  has been Americanized to Lemon Drop in book 1. It's terribly interesting to look at the two editions of the book together and see what the editors thought we wouldn't get. In most cases, the original is much richer than the edited. There have only been a few phrases that I was only able to guess the meaning from context from books 3 and 4. I'm really looking forward to sitting down and reading the two ed's side by side for comparison. Aah, if I only had more time... Vast numbers of words are spelled differently. I had no idea that there was that much difference. I realise now how extensively other books by British authors have been edited as well. It makes me feel the need to apologize for the hubristic attitude we (US'ns) have, sometimes without even realising it.
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Sounds like hard work. I think the problem with "translation" is that books lose something each time they are translated, whether from USEng to BritEng or vice versa. Makes me wonder how we all manage to read those web pages produced in other versions of English without having to Babel Fish them. [non wordie diversion] PS We got a sneak pre-view last night of scenes from the second film. They have been filming the Hogwarts Express going over the Glenfinnan Viaduct in the West of Scotland with hoards of local school-children dressed in Hogwarts uniform. http://www.road-to-the-isles.org.uk/glenfinnan.html and for people who like looking at bridges http://www.sir-robert-mcalpine.com/projects/51.html Apart from Kings Cross (the London Station for the trains to the East Coast and Scotland), the books never mention any of the real places that the Hogwarts Express goes to, so the railway companies are clearly all competing for it to travel down the more aesthetic parts of their line to ensure a steady stream of Harry Potter obsessed visitors in the future.
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I drop this in just to keep the party going ...
The book "Six Days" by Brendan DuBois was published in UK by Little Brown at Bittehhouse, Lancaster Place, London, WC2E 7EN.
Brendan is an American and lives in a town near me. A local bookstore got cases of the books to sell locally where Brendan has a huge following. That's how I got my copy. It's a thriller and a walloping good read. I am sure the book is an "English" edition because inside front cover is an advert wherein the publishers say "If you don't enjoy "6 Days" we will refund your money." (then address as given above.)
For you UK folks the offer is good until October 31,2001. The price on front is - in pounds-9.99.
So, we have an American writer with a book first published in GB and as far as I could see there were no changes in any references.
The book is set in NH and Vermont. While on a camping trip two people enter a shelter in the NH mountains during the storm where the man, a former special forces agent, recognizes the place is something very sinister. Yum!
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I have not noticed a single occurrence of metric units in the UK version, much to my surprise. Why the surprise? The UK hardly uses metric measurements in everyday speech much at all. Despite the UK parliament and various commissions since 1797 (!) agreeing to change to the metric system, everyday life and speech seems to turn a deaf ear to it. Yes, we use SI measurements in scientific, engineering, and educational contexts. We buy our petrol in litres, or more probably in half-tankfuls, or 10 pounds-worths, but ignore the unit when complaining - Petrol's gone up tuppence -it's almost 80 pence now! We still talk about miles-per-gallon, but can't calculate it any more so just guess or don't talk about it at all. Miles-per-litre sounds silly and hasn't caught on as we wait for the next logical step, and we have no idea how to calulate litres-per-100 Kilometres, which is the European measure. Despite having weather forcast since the late 60s (by memory) using Centigrade temperatures, they are still regularly translated by the presenter into Fahrenheit, though I have noticed more use of Centigrade in everyday conversation recently. Luckily, for UK weather it is usually pretty clear what scale is being used. (Two asides - a quick conversion accurate enough for weather is "Double and add 30" to go from Centigrade to Fahrenheit. The other is that I had problems on vacation at the chalet until I noticed that the thermometer was in Reaumur, apparantly it was in fashion in Switzerland for some time - it is an old chalet by the way.) All pre-packaged food (apart from milk) is in metric units now, and since 1999 all loose items (fruit, veg, nails,..) have to be sold in metric (apart from beer where it is illegal to sell in metric!) But if you ask for a pound of apples in the market, you will get an approximation (as always) or a rounding up to half-kilo. The price will be calculated from the metric price. I think the English pound will become the nickname for a half-kilo, exactly as in France and Germany they use Livres and Pfund (in Germany babies' weight is told in Pfund - do they use livre in France anyone?) We only use kilometers in the army (called klicks) and except when measuring for fitted kitchens and fabric, we tend to use feet and inches still. As such all the idioms and general conversation still use imperial terms. A personal view from a metric enthusiast, your kilometr(e)age may vary, Rod http://www.usma.demon.co.uk/history.htm has some interesting snippets.
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I have not noticed a single occurrence of metric units in the UK version, much to my surprise.
Why the surprise? The UK hardly uses metric measurements in everyday speech much at all.
You see, that's precisely it. They teach us in schools that all of Erupoe, no all the modern world other than the US use metric exclusively. We are given the impression that we're the only educated group left on the planet who still uses that 'backward' imperial system. I thought it was common knowledge that everyone not from the United States used metric units.
emanuela recently sent me a postcard of her town. She mentioned someting 50 meters to the left. This seemed to provide reasonable evidence that Italians use metric units. I didn't realize that there was any reason to believe that UK did otherwise.
When maverick gave me the cost for shipping the books, he told me the price in US dollars, but the weight in kilos, also supporting my belief that SI was the common system of measure.
Never having had the opportunity to travel off the continent, I didn't realize that you use both. All I know of the world outside this continent is what I've read or what I've seen in some other form of media. The scientific works conform to my expectations. Most of the nature shows and documentaries Ive seen from UK use kilometers, kilograms, etc. also providing evidence that SI is the prefered system. The fiction seems to have been edited to shelter me from anything that might enlighten (or confuse).
This is why that when I saw a British edition of a book that used imperial units I was confused. I've never had reason to expect otherwise.
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he told me the price in US dollars, but the weight in kilosyeahbut® I'm a younger generation than Uncle Rodney fwiw, I did all measurements when building my house in metric, from m3 of concrete to running lengths of timber (lumber to my yankee brethrennsistren). All my work life is measured out in metric coffee spoons too And I buy petrol in litres, drink wine by the litre (believe me) but I still know all the imperial guages too. I was of the inbetween generation, in some ways, I guess. The only one I have to still make any conscious effort at is temperature - sure, I know 28 = 82, but I know what 52F or 64F or 93F feels like on my skin...
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Hey did you hear that Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire won this year's Hugo!! Rowling joins the ranks with such names as Asimov, Clarke, Gibson, Heinlein, and Brunner.
Even if it is one of the very few books to win a Hugo that isn't hard SciFi... Congratulaions to her!
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http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/ brings some, but not all, of our topics on this thread together nicely. Hard to tell if it's in Imperial or metric, though. p.s. as this is the comic for Sept. 6, the above URL may not work after today - but go to the Sept. 6 comic on the little calendar down the page a piece if it's a different day wherever/whenever you are reading this.
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And I buy petrol in litres, drink wine by the litre ..
the point I was trying to make in my previous rambling post was that we use metric measurements (apart from miles and pints of beer/milk) but that apart from sales and professional transactions we don't use them in general conversation much. In my experience this applies to the younger generation as well. We use a mixture of units, sometimes together (a metre of 2" by 4" timber).
Television and monitor screen sizes are expressed in inches, car engine sizes in cc or litres. Arbitary and approximate measurements tend to be expressed in imperial - "The pub is 500 yards from the junction.", whereas specific regulated measurements such as in international sports (athletics, swimming, rugby, soccer, etc,) are in metric, presumably in US as well.
Since the change to Celsius (which I still refer to as Centigrade) is only just moving into the language after 30 years, we may need to wait a while. Even then I expect that many of today's imperial expressions ("give him an inch and he'll take a mile", "he hasn't an ounce of sense") will remain.
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In my experience this applies to the younger generation as well. We use a mixture of units...Point taken, Rod - hey, I never claimed to be representative of the lumpen masses, I'm a maverick But fwiw I do give directions like "take the second on the left, 200 metres after the bridge..." And I don't measure wood in feet and inches, haven't done for at least fifteen years (that's ¾ of a score in Imperial )
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mav: fifteen years (that's ¾ of a score in Imperial)I think you mean half-score and five . rod: a metre of 2" by 4" timberThat makes my brain hurt.
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so how old is three score years and ten?
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70-- and aside from the Gettysburg address, i never use score or stone as measurement of 20 http://eserver.org/history/gettysburg-address.txtFour score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this round...
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We had to learn the Gettysburg Address by heart when I went to high school (1944-147)
Do they still require it?
Anyone with HS age children?
I thought a "stone" in UK weight was 14 pounds in US weight or have I been daydreaming again?
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oops - sorry Flats, I queried your response before my brain caught up!
and yes, wow, 14lbs = 1 stone = about 6nathird kilos!
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Ahhhh, to weigh 11 stone again!
Or even to weigh the lie on my driver's license!
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Anyone with HS age children?
Are about high school age people good enough?
No, I wasn't required to memorize it. I think most educational institutions prefer now that you actually learn something rather than simply memorize it so you can mindlessly regurgitate it later for no reason.
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>>. I think most educational institutions prefer now that you actually learn something rather than simply memorize it
aagh! i think memorizing it a way of learning.. and i also think that learning how to memorize something is also an important part of learning.. I didn't alway value the things i was made to memorize, until, years later, as i regurgitated, them, heard the words.
there is a roman philosopher who claimed you could never stand enter the same river twice, be the river flowed, there was always new water.
when you memeorize something, you don't mindlessly regurgatate. you have it with you, and as you change, the words change..
you're still a bit young, but go back and watch some movie you thought great 5 years ago.. something you watched as you entered HS, and see if you enjoy the movie as much, (you might), but also see if you think or feel the same way about the story. see how your own perceptions have changed.
I added the URL, because my memory was imperfect. i couldn't go past the line i ended at, (and there were a few errors, corrected before that.) but the words move me. and my reaction to the words changes with time.
if you went through 12 years of school with out being required to memorize anything, i feel sad for you. you missed learning a vital tool. you can still learn it, but it will takes some years of practice to master.
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re: i never use score or stone as measurement of 20
i messed up! i almost never use the terms.. i acutally learned score from gettysberg address.. but stone is one of those terms i keep tripping over..
all the UK/NZ/OZ guys are right..
mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
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>acutally learned score from gettysberg address..
I actually learned about score from Ford, 1953, flathead mill, BIG backseat :_)
TEd
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I actually learned about score from Ford, 1953, flathead mill, BIG backseat :_)! But I have to ask... what's a flathead mill?(Gee, were you expecting another question???)
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Back in 1985 when I moved to Singapore (my first foray into the tropics and first long term period out of the UK) one of the things that threw me for a loop was the fact that eggs were sold by the ten rather than by the half-dozen or dozen. What is the standard quantity in other parts of the world?
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In Mexico, eggs are sold by the kilo, even when purchased in a flat of 2 1/2 dozen. If you bought them on a farm, it would be so many centavos/pesos(depending on the state of the peso) per egg, but still based on the kilo amount. Most farms I visited didn't have a scale to weigh them.
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Huh? Who does use stone as a measure of 20?Never heard of using stones for twenty. Of all the gall! I still think of my weight in stones, 14 to the poundFunny. In my part of Zild, we always had 14 pounds to the stone, but then who am I to argue? the last legacy of my being part of NZ's transitional generation, like maverick, straddling the change from imperial to metric.Does straddling the change hurt? I've heard it's murder on the haemorrhoids ...  I have never heard of stone being used to mean twenty before.But, then, you repeat yourself. So do I. Frequently. Me too.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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In UK eggs are still sold in 6s and 12s. In Switzerland in 6s and 10s.
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Imperial and Metric, and the perils of confusing the two… it can cause more than irritating pileups, CK! Canada had another famous "dead stick" landing, in 1983, when an Air Canada plane ran out of fuel because refuelers had confused metric and imperial measures when loading the plane. The pilot, who had extensive glider experience, landed the Boeing 767 on a disused airfield used for auto racing and go-kart derbies in Gimli, Manitoba. That plane has become known as the Gimli Glider.http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/10/international/americas/10PLAN.html?todaysheadlines
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So if you don't buy eggs by the dozen, Bingley, you must go to the store for a half-score of eggs? While we're on the topic of eggs, what really bothered me when I went to Korea (where they're sold by the dozen, BTW) was that they weren't refrigerated. Ew. 
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