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#37713 - 08/07/01 12:15 AM Q. about a Phrase!
Marigold Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 8
Hi, Wordsmithies! I am so excited to be a part of this little corner of life. This is my first post, so am all aquiver! My question is as follows. Does anyone know the origin of the phrase "Grapes of Wrath"? Thanks! I have to try one of these faces now...

_________________________
Marigold

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#37714 - 08/07/01 01:10 AM Re: Q. about a Phrase!
Geoff Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/12/00
Posts: 819
Loc: Portland,Oregon, USA
Does anyone know the origin of the phrase "Grapes of Wrath"?

The Battle Hymn of The Republic, Steinbeck, and the 14th chapter of Revelation. Past that, I dunno. However, there are lots of car wrecks out here in the wine country of Oregon, soooo.....


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#37715 - 08/07/01 08:27 AM Re: Q. about a Phrase!
wordcrazy Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 275
Marigold
The color is intentional.
Welcome, from one "quite new" also.
You show a lot of promise.
I am at work right now, not goofing off (?) but accidentally(?) came early so has time for this greeting. I will await answers to your query. I know you will get satisfaction.


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#37716 - 08/07/01 08:59 AM Re: Q. about a Phrase!
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Hi Geoff! Long time no see! With your clue as to Revelations 14, I looked it up.

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city,
because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without
mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone
in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth,
and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.



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#37717 - 08/07/01 09:26 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!
Geoff Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/12/00
Posts: 819
Loc: Portland,Oregon, USA
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth,
and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


You got it, Dr. Bill! As far as I know, them's the original grapes of wrath. Anybody know better?

BTW, Marigold, what made you ask the question? You've piqued my interest!


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#37718 - 08/07/01 11:49 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!
Marigold Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 8
Hi! It was rather timely....I had just registered for AWAD so that I could peruse the bulletin board, when a co-worker asked me that question. Since I didn't know the answer, I told him I knew the perfect place to ask! Thanks for the answers! I knew I could count on you-all!

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Marigold

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#37719 - 08/09/01 04:26 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 3439
Loc: New England, USA
Welcome Marigold, and do put your inquisitive co-worker onto us, too ...we have plenty of room for people like you and your chum i.e. people with inquiring minds


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#37720 - 08/11/01 06:20 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!
Keiva Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 2605
What an interesting question. Thank you, Marigold.

I'm unclear what the metaphor "grapes of wrath" means, in the Battle Hymn line, "the Lord/He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored." Are grapes stored in a "vintage" and are they "trampled" there?

The bible doesn't seem to use the phrase "grapes of wrath". WWH noted a bible metaphor that makes much more sense (winepress of the wrath of God), were divine wrath is the active force (winepress), not passive (trampled grapes).

Could "grapes of wrath" be a mixed metaphor that Howe originated when she wrote her Civil War Hymn? Clues:
--- Isaiah 5:1-7 (shortened) "My wellbeloved hath a vineyard and planted it with the choicest vine, and yet it brought forth wild grapes. Judge I pray you betwixt me and my vineyard. What could have been done more, that I have not done in it, that it should bring forth wild grapes? I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will lay it to waste. The vineyard of the Lord is the house of Israel, and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry."
--- Per a Lincoln biographer: A contemporary battle hymn begins with Isaiah 64:4, and then mirrors the vineyard image: "tread down God's grapes, till blood / Unto your horses' bridles hath out the winepress flowed! The day of vengeance dawns, the day of wrath of God. His soul is marching on."
--- Same biographer: while Howe watched soldiers marching by and singing, her companion suggested she write better words to the same marching tune. "When she woke at dawn the next morning lines and stanzas came to her as she lay in bed half dreaming that she was the voice of the nation. She sprang from the bed and wrote in a dim grey twilight, not daring to light the lamp, as it would wake her baby sleeping in its crib."


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#37721 - 08/22/01 07:50 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!
francais31415 Offline
member

Registered: 01/15/01
Posts: 157
her companion suggested she write better words to the same marching tune

I wonder what the original lyrics were?


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#37722 - 08/22/01 09:19 PM Re: Q. about a Phrase!
Keiva Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 2605
better words to the same marching tune
I wonder what the original lyrics were?


John Brown's body lies a'moldering in the grave,
John Brown's body lies a'moldering in the grave,
John Brown's body lies a'moldering in the grave,
But his truth goes marching on!


Ugh. If memory serves, John Brown was a hero/martyr of the Abolishists -- and a kook of the first order.

I'm not sure if the tune originated there, though. In the movie versions of the Scopes Monkey Trial (Inherit the Wind?), the crowd of torch-carrying rednecks sings the same tune, with different words.

Anyone know where the tune started?


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