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Can a man be impeached who does not hold office?
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Do you mean President-elect John Smith, or Fred Macdougal, editor of the local paper?
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Well, yes, insofar as "impeach also has the meaning of doubting the credibility of a witness, or to make an accusation against anyone.
But in the legal sense, which is what I guess you are after, "impeach" specifically means "To charge (a public official) with improper conduct in office before a proper tribunal"
Atomica
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Isn't there a Georgian ritual where, at the first frost of autumn, college freshman in their birthday suits sprint through the orchards while bystanders chuck fruit at them? I think, at such a ritual, the one responsible for pelting a timid freshman and holler with pride "I got 'impeached!"
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Brandon asks: Isn't there a Georgian ritual ...
Hey, how'd *you know about that? Well, now that you've gone and spilled the grits, let me just add that this particular harvest festival at UGA is cheered on by screams of "Go Dawgs!" It's a Southern-fried variation on those Oxford Dons and the boys dancing naked in the moonlight on cross-quarterWhitAutumnSamhain. But don't tell anybody *that part.
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Georgia ritual: I hope not too many billiards are scored.
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Frost? Autumn? Georgia? An all this time you been wssb wsssbrr pss pss wssbr wsssb!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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It's all relative, my dear Faldage.  vide verso
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What on earth is bloW, anyway? Eh?
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Relative? Frost is frost!
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OK, so Brandon exaggerated on the frost thang. You know how these stories tend to get twisted. 
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Wull, OK. But I still bssr wssszz bsbsbssr wzzwr.
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bloW
but leave out Willie?
butt lovers ogle Walpurgisnacht??
butte levels overt Wankers?!
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<<butte levels overt Wankers?!>>
Can a man be impeached who holds his own?
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You're *not being very helpful here, inselpeter
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dancing naked in the moonlight on cross-quarterWhitAutumnSamhainHey!...How'd I get in there? stttrrrrreeeeeaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkk!!!! Can you impeach a man who holds his own?No...because, then, you couldn't hand it to him! 
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The ASp complains: You're *not being very helpful here, inselpeter
Um,
Born in New York
Raised in bedlam
Lost in Jerusalem
Wept at BvG
I don't think it's in his job description to be very helpful.
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AnnaS > You're *not being very helpful here, inselpeter
But ya' gotta' admit IP's pretty funny !!!
And I haste to add that humor is a levening agent -- raising the level -- transforming-- making lighter.
We would all do better is daily dose of humor was in the our vitamin pills. (Couldn't hurt!)
So keep 'em comin' Inselpeter! I'm arootin' fer ya'.
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one (wo)man's humor is another man's veeblefetzer
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tsuwm! I din't know you were Veeble People!
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I thought the subject was *perfectly clear, especially since Georgia "peachieness" came into view, but especially when accused of "holding his own" wanker. I do believe he's o'the right track, as recent discussions of the derailment that has already occurred turned into definitions of ImPeachment.
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<<I don't think it's in his job description to be very helpful.>>
Perhaps not, but Bush v. Gore's just *part of the job
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Madam wow admonishes: But ya' gotta' admit IP's pretty funny !!!Indeed I do, wow, and in my pathetic, wry sort of way, I was *attempting to be humorous back. Hence the in my post, because I wanted to make my intention clear.
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But dear Inselpeter, what in tunket is the significance of "bloW"?
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Thank you, Dr Bill, for rephrasing the question ... maybe now we'll get a reply.
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nice euphemism, bill.
1922 Joyce Ulysses Golly, whatten tunket's yon guy in the mackintosh?
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dear Inselpeter, what in tunket is the significance of "bloW"?
My guesses: blow Dubya away, or off. (blo + W)
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But maybe Bush does not have that kind of intern .
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My guesses: blow Dubya away, or off. (blo + W)
At this point, if Jackie disappears, we'll find her in federal prison... even if "W" is quite a bit dusty these days.
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Jackie's safe. It was inselpeter who suggested it, so Secret Service will be interrogating him. Or maybe Harmonica Levinsky, virtuoso on the mouth organ.
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<<I was *attempting...>> And successfully, I might add, and appreciated ( back at you). *** If the topic's still live: Jackie got it (bless you, love you, madly) And W isn't the president; and the The New York Times is waging a legitimation campaign on his behalf and it pisses me off. And inspite of all that, it's a lovely day in New York City. :)
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"And W isn't the president; and the The New York Times is waging a legitimation campaign on his
behalf and it pisses me off."
A couple comments. W isn't the president, he's the President. And Bush I has never denied paternity of Bush II, so he doesn't need "legitimation".(or legitimization).He may even have a legitimate birth certificate.
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Jackie got it (bless you, love you, madly)
'Tis returned, sweet Insel! [blowing kiss (note small w!)]
The NY Times (boo, hiss, for trying to make me give them my name! Grr.) is waging a legitimation campaign? WHY?
How much more legitimate can you get in the U.S. than the Supreme Court?? (Oh man, oh man, don't anybody respond to this--I can't believe I actually discussed politics!)
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bloWBeautiful, IP!...you even sneak in the added entendre of his "recreational" cocaine use (just 30 years or so of drug "play", you know...at least he didn't inhale like Clinton did! No, instead, to quote Cheech and Chong, "everything goes up his nose!")
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Dear WO'N: It is news to me that Bush II used cocaine for thirty years. Please cite your authority for the statement. I am genuinely surprised the Democrats never mentioned it .......if it is true.
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it's news to me that Bush II used cocaine for 30 yearsAll right, so I got a little carried away...it was probably only for 20 years! It was common knowledge that he was a spoiled brat cokie who bluffed his way through college on a "C" average that should've been a flunk-out because all the Professors were afraid to flunk George Bush's kid if they valued their "tenured" positions...so maybe we can thank these wusses for what we've got. But, yeah, Dr, Bill...early in the campaign it was publicly alleged that he was a steady cocaine user until he "stopped" drinking 10-15 years ago. He just ducked the issue by refusing to answer the questions! And did you also know that his "camp" bought up all the Bush-bashing websites just before the primaries (i.e.: Bushsucks.com, Bushblows.com, etc) and linked them directly to his formal Presidential campaign site!...they were in their "rights" to do this...but what a cynical way to suppress free speech! These are the people we have in power  ...guess this gets me a free ticket onto the CIA's 'watch' list, if I'm not there already due to other published writings...oh, well....!
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<<.you even sneak in the added entendre of his "recreational" cocaine>>
That's where I draw the line. ;)
***
To all: perhaps I should not have posted what I thought would be a forgotten quip. Although it was I who started this, I wonder if I shouldn't have. Nix politics?
IP
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W isn't the president
Anyone who takes the oath is President.
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Harmonica Levinsky, virtuoso on the mouth organ.
Love it!
But has anyone else noticed that bloW is Wolb spelled backwards?
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well, i am not to happy about W-- but he is not the first, nor will he be the last man in american politics to have stolen an election. time will pass-- he is already not doing such a hot job..
its true the stock market bubble had to burst some time, but i thing the general upset about W and his policies will make this "correction" a bit harder to take than the ones in 1987 or 1991-- and a down turn in the economy with cost him re-election-- that coupled with his other screw ups.. so far his screw ups have been "minor"-- but throwing out the Kyoto agreement, and other matters of foriegn policy are the building blocks to a real big screw up.
and Dr. bill there was news about his use of alcohol and drugs.. since he never was actually arrested, and legal found with drugs in his possesion, -- it a difficult thing to "Prove" -- his DWI's offer proof his drinking problem.. and he didn't deny them. but with no "proof" in the record of drug use, any editor who made an statements risked a libel suit. so most backed off.. However, he associated with a number of people who did use drugs, and where caught with them.. he went to clubs where drug use was rappant.. he had money and opportunity, and associated with known drug users for 10 to 15 years. Do you have long term associations with drug users? why would anyone, exept as source of drugs? it is a "guilt by association" -- and we do have this legal concept of innocent till proven guilty.
and being america, our next elections will be all above board, and twenty years from now, we will have an other elections stole.. which party? who knows? i am a liberal democrate-- but i recognize that the Democratic party has stolen elections in the past.. W is the thief of the moment-- his moment will pass.
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W isn't the president
Anyone who takes the oath is President.
Not really, sweetie.
RE RECENT ELECTION :
Heard Alan Dershowitz on his new book (BookTV last week) and it was quite interesting. Title : "Supreme Injustice" about how Supreme Court stole election for Busch. Published by Oxford University Press. He made some strong points.
Think I will give it a peruse. After all, it *is Dershowitz!
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"But has anyone else noticed that bloW is Wolb spelled backwards?"
A sinister plot? By whom?
GENDERCIDE: Wolbachia and the Male
New Scientist
SOME would call it the ultimate feminist weapon-a bacterial parasite that wages a tireless crusade against males and maleness. In some species, it turns infected males into females.
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FYI: "DWI" = Driving While Intoxicated. In some places, the charge is DUI: Driving Under the Influence.
Am I the only one who thinks that Dr.Bill was pointing out that the title of president should be capitalized?
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No! I thought it appropriate to make my transition to addiction under this thread...
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...my transition to addiction ...Congratulations, Sweetie Pie!
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'Bout damn time, mav! And Jackie:Yeah. That's what I understand, too. Upper-case 'President' means only one thang.
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So long as you haven't been addicted to wolbachia -- what a story! an insect Herland
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W is the thief
Ok, time for the defense to step in.
I know we've already discussed this, but I'm sick of you all calling it a stolen election. The disgustingly arbitrary vote counting supported by the Gore camp is simply not legitimate. There were no standards. The Supreme Court just stopped the unorganized tabulation of votes. Plus, after the election was all said and done the media finished counting the votes and guess who came up the winner: Bush. So drop it already.
Helen, it's also absurd to say that because Bush was elected the US economy is going to suffer. Had Gore been elected taxes would have surely been raised, and can you please explain how in the world taking money from hard-working people is going to help the economy? The government spends too much money on frivolous programs and gives too much to people who don't know anything about saving it or spending it wisely. Tanzania receives more welfare from the US than any other nation, they've been receiving it for 30 years, and they're still the 3rd poorest nation in the world. Welfare doesn't work, let people spend it how they want and the economy improves. Why do you think America had the highest standard of living in the world in the first half of the 20th century when taxes were very low, and now we don't when taxes are much higher?
And while I'm on my soapbox, and this post is already pretty long, I'm going to finally make my riposte about the whole global warming issue. Simply, there's no way you can prove that industry is causing any weather changes when we've only been recording weather conditions for 140 years. The truth is that CO2 and other gas emissions have gone down greatly in the last 50 years because cars and factories are cleaner. The UN should concentrate on people who are actively destroying nature rather than stifling business by going after companies that are emitting harmless gases. There is simply no proof that global warming is linked to human actions. Records even show that the global temperature has actually gone down in the last 30 or so years.
And BY, don't say I'm brainwashed. I'm not. In America the government doesn't control what's printed or put on TV. My dad, a research scientist, subscribes to a magazine called "The Scientist" which is the opinions of the most reputed scientists in America, and they agree with the positions I've just stated, and you can't say that they're brainwashed. The US has bar-none the best research universities in the world and they do their research freely.
There was a program on ABC about a month ago called "Tampering With Nature" that exposed the fallacious claims of people who attribute global warming to humans. He even showed school children being brainwashed by their teachers to that effect. Many environmentalist groups tryed to stop the show from running because they knew that the scientists were right: Global warming is not caused by humans.
Excuse my ranting, but I can't stand claims that have no proof.
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Dear Jazz: I agree with you that climate change is not due entirely to human activity. But given the very disagreable effects global warming may well cause, carefully planned efforts to reduce CO2 and methane emissions seem like good sense. The operative phrase is carefully planned. There has been a lot of nonsense such as government grants for efforts to reduce cow flatus. Keeping cows' intestinal flora optimal for low flaturulence would require an unreasonable amount of labwork and treatment. And if it comes to that, I find it hard to believe that total human flatus does not greatly exceed cow flatus. Who wants the job of controlling the human output?
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Actually, I think all discussion of politics, especially "major party" politics in the US, is a moot point. All interests are controlled by the same cartel of the big-monied power elite who manipulate everything for their own greed...that's the current "government." So what I'm afraid we're settling in for here, in the long run, is really the
Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton/Bush "Administration"...same folks behind them. Oh, in case you're wondering, that's George/Bill/George/Hillary/Jeb. (Neil Bush blew his eligibility for the job with the Silverado S and L Banking Scandal...that's why Dubya's there now).
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Jazz,
I am very glad that you are taking a serious interest in the subject of global warming, and I am equally glad that we both live in countries that allow us to hold and debate opposing views. However, this is not the forum to hold a major discussion on the subject, so I will restrain myself. I will send a PM however if I may.
Rod
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In America the government doesn't control what's printed or put on TV.No, but the conservative mega-corporations which control the media do! Records even show that the global temperature has actually gone down in the last 30 or so years.There's a plot outside my office which shows the opposite. There was a slight drop through the 1970's, but between 1980 and 2000 the trend is definitely upward. It also appeared to be higher than average between about 1935 and 1970, and lower than average before that (see http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/ol/climate/research/1998/anomalies/anomalies.html and click on the graph). there's no way you can prove that industry is causing any weather changes when we've only been recording weather conditions for 140 years.No, you can't prove it, but you can come up with good models, test their predictions, discuss your findings with other scientists...waiting to see if it's really us who are causing the global warming will leave it until it's too late to fix! "The Scientist"You'll have to read a lot more than just one magazine if you want to convince yourself if something is true or not. Just because some more outspoken scientists have decided to state that we are not causing global warming, doesn't mean that their views are the only ones that matter. You have to consider the work and findings of many people, on both sides of the argument, before you can come to a conclusion. I can't stand claims that have no proof.Just be careful, by your arguments, you have no proof the other way, either! By the way, I too had done some reading which indicated that global warming was a bit of an exaggeration, and was originally inclined to agree. Then I took a graduate course in ocean circulation modeling, in which we also talked about global warming, and I have since come around to the "we'd better be careful" side. The evidence for seems to be better than that against.
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In America the government doesn't control what's printed or put on TV. No, but the conservative mega-corporations which control the media do! The only conservative mega-media-corporation I'm aware of is Fox. And it's fiercely outnumbered, without even mentioning CBC or PBS. ~~~~ and yes, rodward, I agree. This is not the forum for politics. 
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>This is not the forum for politics.
sure, get your shot in and then affect a salutary position.<harrumph>
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WO'N - As PM'd, I was gonna speak, but yet again, Bean has made my point (singular) for me... ...affect a salutary position... Now we're talkin'... Cheers
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In America the government doesn't control what's printed or put on the TV
No, but the conservative mega-corporations which control the media do!
The only conservative mega-media-corporation I'm aware of is FOX
The owner of FOX News, and countless newspapers nationwide, and a movie studio, etc., etc., etc....is a self-proclaimed far-right wacko, Rupert Murdoch...an Aussie! Consolidating his influence and control of the media....for what? Beware.....
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is a self-proclaimed far-right wacko
Yes, but news anchors are notoriously very liberal.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
Well an american liberal is a middle of the roader in almost any other country. and an american conservative isn't as right wing as some countries..
I would tend to agree, that large media companies in US tend to be liberal.. but they also self censor.. for fear of being sued, or what ever. And there have been erosions of the first amendment. - and there are constant assaults on it (first amendment guarantees freedom of speak, communications among other things) but we still tend to have a very open press/media/communications industry.
and as I recall, as Murdoch assembled his US empire, he had to give up Aussie citizenship and become one of us– since one law we do have is we do try to keep mass media out of foreign hands.. And TV/radio frequencies franchise are limited to US citizens/companies. There are cable channels that are international– and different news organization buy time. So late Saturday night, you can catch up on the news in Japan.
We have no problems with letting in foreign press– and in NY, you can readily buy almost every major european paper, and many other countries as well, if you go to the right neighborhood– so the Irish Times is available in some areas of the Bronx, and in Queens more readily than Manhattan, and you can get Columbian news, Filipino news, hundreds of Indian newspapers.. And almost every national group has locally produced news papers and magazines.. And most major cities in US have a decent supply of foreign news paper/magazines available.. (At least Chicago, Atlanta, and Seattle, do, and it's a given that DC does.. )not to mention, internet access.
the real problems is US is so isolationist, we tend not to read international news.. and international news gets very poor coverage on TV.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 387 |
I thought about it for a few days, and decided that you Democrats can't impeach him for not holding office, because that would basically be admitting that he does.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 218
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 218 |
jimthedog writes that you Democrats can't impeach him for not holding office, because that would basically be admitting that he does. This basically creates the circular reasoning similar to the Protagoras v. Euathlus case mentioned elsewhere. Incidently, it is certainly one of my favorite legal and logical paradoxes. http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/psa/sec20.htm#AEdit: I found, at that same site, an actual case where this Liar's Paradox played out in the courtroom (albeit 1946): http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/psa/sec20.htm#B
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<Ok, time for the defense to step in...Bush, so drop it.>>
One isn't in the Gore camp by virtue of not being in the Bush.
The issue was and is the Supreme Court, not the George who would be king. Their decision was a disaster for everyone, regardless of party affiliation. But we go blithely and blindly forward as though nothing happened. Every legitimation of the new Bush presidency is a legitimation of The Court's sabotage of our Constitution. It is this, and not the pretended stupidity of the man in the Oval Office I find so incredibly disturbing.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
[tsuwm mode off]
please take the politics elsewhere, there are plenty of sites where y'all can have hissy-fits. and yes, inselpeter, you started it.
[/end out-of-character post]
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
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Joined: Sep 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
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but otoh (just to suggest a point that may not be obvious to USns in perticklier) it can be very interesting to hear internal accounts of your politics, for those of us around the globe. I think the problem steps to the line when hissy fits of a party nature predominate. Let's just stay civilised, and not rule anything *completely beyond the bounds of discussion, eh? ... even The Truth
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379 |
<<you started it>>
True, and I tried to stop it, also. I was surprised, when I was able to get back here, just how many posts there are. But I think you're probably right.
IP
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
I remain independent and apolitical. Labels are ludicrous and, I feel, have lost their meaning (i.e. Dem./Rep; Liberal/Conservative; Left/Right)...I simply speak out against whatever I believe to be a seen or perceived injustice on any particular issue, let the labels fall where they may! I could never be a Party Parrot. (And I agree with insel that the S.C. Shutdown and appointing of a Pres. was the worst of it all with serious Constitutional consequences for the future) And, yeah, we are here more for the words, so...words coined from politics: Gerrymandering, filibuster, straw ballot, chad (oops, there I go again!) Add some, folks.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679 |
Hey, how'd *you know about that? Well, now that you've gone and spilled the grits, let me just add that this particular harvest festival at UGA is cheered on by screams of "Go Dawgs!" It's a Southern-fried variation on those Oxford Dons and the boys dancing naked in the moonlight on cross-quarterWhitAutumnSamhain. But don't tell anybody *that part.
Samhain. You have that word in the States???! Samhain (pronounced Sow-ann) is Irish fro November. Oíche (ee-hah) Samhain is the night before November. Yep, you've guessed it. Hallowe'en. Ties in nicely with your strange, Southern pagan rituals. Kind of spooky, too. ;^)
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
Oíche (ee-hah) Samhain is the night before November...Ties in nicely with your strange, Southern pagan rituals
Particularly that Ee, Hah! bit.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609
addict
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addict
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 609 |
The caption competition in the UK Times this Saturday had Bush meeting the Pope. The Pope for some reason has his hand over his face, and the caption (supplied by a reader) is Bush saying " So you're a Pole. North or South?"
Fairly or not, that is his reputation.
Rod
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679
addict
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addict
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 679 |
Particularly that Ee, Hah! bit.
I could see that one coming, Faldage, but nice one anyway. ;^)
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
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I could see that one coming,
You mean you didn't just toss it out as a straight line?
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467 |
>The caption competition in the UK Times this Saturday had Bush meeting the Pope. The Pope for some reason has his hand over his face, and the caption (supplied by a reader) is Bush saying " So you're a Pole. North or South?"
I saw the same picture, but the caption was "Oh SHIT! He's even dumber than I thought!"
TEd
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