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#30842 - 06/19/01 03:14 PM Re: mass emigration
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
Wasn't the "marching moron's" problem addressed in Hitch hikers? an advanced team sent out to prepare a planet for habitation-- and the advance team was all decoraters, hair dressers, ad writers, agents, middle managers.. etc? (i didn't actualy read the book--i only saw the tv Series.. but i am sure Max can give more details..)

and if the idea of a brain drain where really a problem-- every one in europe would be an idiot-- and that is not the case.. 1 -- even idiots can have smart children.. 2-- incredible gifted people can have compelling reasons for staying put-- physical difficulties, close family relationships, etc.

In some ways, both US and Oz where populated not with "brains" but with "cranks" and crooks. certainly people who where on the outs with the society they left-- either for relegious or legal reasons-- maybe they were adventurous.. or maybe slightly crack pot!

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#30843 - 06/19/01 03:29 PM Re: mass emigration
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Marching Morons is from a story by the same name by C.M. Kornbluth. The premise was that a 20th century man was zapped forward in time by the Pooh-Bahs of a future society to solve a problem they had. The 20th century man, upon being introduced to the problem decided that the Pooh-Bahs were enslaving the common man, but in truth, the common man so outnumbered the Pooh-Bahs and were so incapable of running things themselves that the Pooh-BAhs were being run ragged trying to keep society running. Things had gotten so out of hand because the intelligent people of the 20th and 21st centuries had practiced sensible birth control procedures but the dummies had bred out of control. Thus, the intelligent people were such a small minority that they essentially had no power at all. They had zapped the 20th guy because they didn't have the ruthlessness to handle the problem they ownse'fs


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#30844 - 06/19/01 05:11 PM Re: mass emigration
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
So NASA should duplicate Star Trek's capability of "beaming" people from one point to another, and populate Mars with our surplus.

One thing that has always puzzled me is why brilliant persons so infrequently have brilliant offspring. And I'm not sure that dummies necessarily have children who are dummies, except where a genetic defect is involved.


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#30845 - 06/19/01 05:33 PM Re: mass emigration
jimthedog Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 02/24/01
Posts: 387
Loc: Hartsville, New York.
an advanced team sent out to prepare a planet for habitation-- and the advance team was all decoraters, hair dressers, ad writers, agents, middle managers.. etc? (i didn't actualy read the book--i only saw the tv Series.. but i am sure Max can give more details..)
Yes, basically it. They got rid of a useless third of the population, and started the human race. That's why Arthur didn't actually have the Question in his head, just a very warped version. The human/aliens drove the semi-intelligent cavemen (they aren't cavemen!!!!!!) to extinction, and the people back home died because of an unsanitised telephone.


ha ha ha, Max

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#30846 - 06/20/01 08:24 AM Genetics of Intelligence
Bryan Hayward Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/03/01
Posts: 69
Loc: IL
I think this is a perception rather than statistical issue. People notice a streetlight going out when they walk under it, but don't notice the thousands of times they've walked under other lights and had nothing happens. Contrariwise, I'd say most of the kids who attend my child's gifted school have one or more parents of better than average ability. They are engineers, Master's degrees, Ph.D's, successful small business owners, corporate executives. Sure, you don't have to be a *genius* to do any of those things, but you need drive and above-average intelligence. Those parents I've met who are in skilled labor jobs or service industry aren't dumb either. I've not met a single below-average parent of one of these gifted kids.

Intelligence is a matter of genetics+environment. While a genius can be born to the stupid, it isn't as often as people would like to think, and the reverse happens just about as often.

Cheers,
Bryan

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Cheers,
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You are only wretched and unworthy if you choose to be.

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#30847 - 06/20/01 12:27 PM Re: Genetics of Intelligence
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
I agree that bright parents usually have bright children. What I should have said was that the children of geniuses seldom match their parents' intellectual level. If you think of the great men and women of the past, they seldom had offspring of equal ability.


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#30848 - 06/20/01 12:35 PM Re: Genetics of Intelligence
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
and many a genius has well educated parents-- but they are not geniuses..

like red hair, or albinoism, or other rare traits, superior ability just springs up.. (actually, red hair is like blue eyes-- a known process- it just that blue eyes are controlled by one set of genes--say "eye color", and red hair is controlled by 2 genetic markers.. making it a double resessive.)

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#30849 - 06/20/01 12:54 PM Re: Genetics of Intelligence
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
The thing about the great men and women in science that puzzles me most is the factor of motivation. There is a somewhat apocryphal story about Newton's being a mediocre student until a bully made him wnat to surpass the bully scholastically.Newton later commented that '" at the height of his powers" he was able to focus on a problem constantly until the answer came to him. Motivation can enhance the achievement of any man or woman , and lack of it can vitiate any career.
Would that we knew how to instill our children with it.


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#30850 - 06/20/01 01:52 PM Re: Genetics of Intelligence
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
Well–actually that was one of my parents successes– when ever we kids were critical of something– we were tasked to do it better–

complained about dinner? You just volunteered to cook the next night– think a story in a tv show was dumb? Sit down and write a better story..

By adulthood, I had internalized it (it does tend to make you very competitive)– and learned to not try some things– like sports– my older sister is only 5'4", but in first year of high school she made varsity basket ball– I never even bothered to try– I was never going to do better than her.. So, I took no interest in, or made an effort in, sports.

But it the same "can you do it better? Put up or shut up" attitude help get me back to college. In three years I went from drop out to graduate with a 3.87 gpa (yes, I admit, it is a second rate college, not university, but still, accredited, and not bad a showing.)

And I use the "device"– when I am teaching something, and someone makes an error–no problem– but should an other class participant make fun of the error–they find they are the next volunteer!– or tasked to do the "assignment" better...

In meetings, I set that up as "ground rule" – the person who has been assigned to be a "scribe" and write things down on the ‘easel pad' has no fear of misspelling a word– anyone who publicly ridicules a spelling or even just rudely calls out a correction– is immediately assigned the job of being scribe...(during breaks, any corrections that are needed are added..)

This lead to an interesting occasion.. A meeting addressing employee morale- was mistakenly scribed as employee morals– and our task: improve them!

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#30851 - 06/20/01 02:50 PM Re: Genetics of Intelligence
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Unfortunately there is a down side to encouraging siblings to compete with each other. It often results in their lacking affection for one another. .


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