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#27950 05/01/01 02:13 PM
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Robyn Lakoff (and others) have pointed out that titles like chairperson are markèd - the semiosis here being one of negation. We're pointedly NOT saying chairMAN, so we are referring to the woman in the (biggest) chair. "Chair," in and of itself, is the unmarked varietal.

One wonders, however, whether or how rapidly other sex-marked words will wither and die. What kind of list of -woman or -man words can we generate? These would be words that have no _logical_ gender; merely an "associative" one.

In reference to Rod's immediately previous post - perhaps in this wired world of ours, alternatives like "waitron" aren't far off?

#27951 05/01/01 02:22 PM
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Sparteye wonders: Am I sure I don't mean Chicago?

Well, maybe at the Bittburger Essenplatz on N. Clark.


#27952 05/01/01 02:51 PM
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Here's a good link from CBC (Canada's national public broadcaster and WAY better than PBS ) about their use of "fisher" instead of "fisherman" in their stories. There are other good word discussions on that site if anyone is interested.

http://cbc.ca/news/indepth/words/fishermen.html


#27953 05/01/01 04:25 PM
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Around here, the waiter/waitress dichotomy often gives way to "server." Most actresses I know refer to themselves as actors. Administratrix and executrix are no longer used.


#27954 05/01/01 04:59 PM
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common sense often goes out the window with this stuff and it's difficult to know where to draw the line (as with fisherman in the CBC link). there is no Very Good Reason for having a special word for a female waiter or aviator or executor. on the other hand, why should I have to specify the gender of actor I need for my leading lady when the perfectly serviceable word actress is at hand? "And the Oscar® for Best Actor in a Woman's Role goes to..."


#27955 05/01/01 05:31 PM
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Around here, the waiter/waitress dichotomy often gives way to "server."

Which, given what they're usually paid, would be more appropriate since "server" must inevitably derive from servus, the Latin word for "slave"!



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#27956 05/01/01 06:04 PM
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In one NH town, Louisa Woodman, a professional woman and staunch believer in women's rights, was the first woman elected chairman of the Planning Board. The Vice-Chair of the Board asked if she wanted to be addressed as Chairman or Chairperson.
She replied : "Chairman is fine, thank you, I have no intention of changing my name to Woodperson."

Now, personally, I have no objection to "Ladies" in situations where, for example, a Maitre d' is gesturing a group of women to a table. Ladies and Gentlemen is fine as a general address to a group.
I think a lot of it has to do with age. If a man in his 70s or over uses girls or ladies, it doesn't seem as offensive as when a younger man treats women as "girls" ... A friend and I were attending a formal dinner for a professional organization and one man at the table asked us : "What do you girls do?"
(Good thing I didn't have a pie to hand.)
Overall, some things like "cleaning lady" are so ingrained that it will take awhile - and an imaginative mind - to think of a phrase to replace it, others like "actor" for both male and female will be changed because those in the profession will keep using the term they prefer until it is part of the language.



#27957 05/01/01 06:09 PM
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Didn't of troy choose a nearly irresistible heading for this thread?
Who could resist clicking on?



#27958 05/01/01 06:43 PM
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I was diappointed that it was not patterned on "Name your poison".


#27959 05/01/01 07:09 PM
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Bill, that is because you are an old fashioned gentleman-- who would insist on calling us all ladies-- no matter what the occation!
(I like mine like whiskey-- strong and neat!)


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