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#24658 03/27/01 01:02 AM
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Rugby--isn't that like football or something?


#24659 03/27/01 09:21 AM
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> "The Live Poets' Society"
If they display half the adroit dithyramb as the hip-hop greats I'd be surprised.
I agree that a some hip-hop is disrespectful towards women but Max, if you think that M&M is misogynic and hateful, then he achieved exactly what he wanted (that's right publicity), the Lady Chatterley's Lover effect. He made it as controversial as he could you know. He wanted people like you to find it disparaging. I'm no great fan of his, but he is no doubt beating the conservatives on the censorship front. If you listened to the MM LP, you'll have noticed the first thing he does is rattle off about 50-100 derogatory phrases and statements, especially concerning sodomy and gays. Not because he hates them (he doesn't give a ****, remember), but to point out the prejudice of the listener towards them. He just released a song with a highly respected 'fag' (Elton John). Although a lot of oldies like to think of themselves as fairly liberal, when confronted with these distressing topics they scream 'obscenity!'; yet it's completely fine for their daughter to buy Cosmo and read about Kama Sutra and satisfying their boyfriend. See, you're already cringing; it's like cryptonite this subject. All he does is hold up a mirror to society, some don't like what they see. 'Intolerance' is not what he's preaching - in fact it's the opposite. He's preaching the, 'the world's more messed up than I'll ever be' philosophy. He's dead right too, he's completely harmless compared to say, oh, the U.S. Senate. btw, you're indirectly giving him a lot of credit just by mentioning him.
You're prolly not much of an electronic music fan right, not that you've listened to much of that either.
Many classical music lovers still can't cope with contemporary 'classical' music, a lot are still coming to terms with 'The Rite of Spring'; why should things be different in 'popular' music.


wet blanket

p.s. Bridget, if you liked 'Ministry of Sound' try listening to Herbert. While the hours away at 120 bpm.


#24660 03/27/01 09:43 AM
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Max, if you think that M&M is misogynic and hateful, then he achieved exactly what he wanted (that's right publicity), the Lady Chatterley's Lover effect.

I am well aware that much of his material is designed to shock in order to generate publicity. However, that was not the point of my post, any more than he was its focus. While I don't like the message, I have no particular feelings concerning the messenger. As for your rather presumtptuous statement See, you're already cringing, you are completely in error, having taken it upon yourself to tell me what I am thinking. I do not "cringe" at Mathers' message, I simply choose not to listen. The possibility that he practices what he preaches, as suggested by the assault charges, simply strengthens my conviction that the philosophy espoused in his work is not one I agree with, and so I choose to ignore it. I bear him no ill-will, nor do I think that I am a lesser person for choosing not to listen to his work, or that of others whose work espouses similar views.


#24661 03/27/01 10:12 AM
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Personally, I think that rap has a place - I just couldn't define it particularly well. The bottom of the Marianas Trench comes to mind, but there are logistical problems there, so I'll keep thinking about it.

BUT, wait for it, there's something worse, much worse. And that is mainstream singers who try/tried to cash in on the rap craze by either doing a rap track themselves, OR, EVEN WORSE, incorporating elements of rap into "normal" songs.

Now, I know I'm getting old because modern music often just sounds like noise to me, which is exactly the scathing sort of statement my parents used to make about The Beatles, the Kinks, yadda, yadda in the 60s and 70s. Although, I do have to say, I heard my 76-year-old pater humming along to "Money" by Pink Floyd on the radio the other day. That was a worry.

So, like B96 and others, I listen to an eclectic array of music ranging from galliards from the 16th century to Robbie Williams, who I admire as much for his genius at relatively inoffensive self-publicity as for his music. In spite of being rubbished from all sides, I listen to Jethro Tull, Steely Dan, early Deep Purple, Yes, Bowie and the whole gamut of the 70s and 80s rock music repertoire. I guess that part of it is nostalgia for my early days playing in bands, but most of it is just that I like the stuff.

And I don't want to stop people listening to rap. I don't see it as the devil's music, I don't want to play it backwards looking for deep and evil meanings. Like Maximus Quordleplenus, I just choose not to listen to it myself.

Bear in mind, if we all liked the same kind of music, then any band craze would be like the dotcom failures - there wouldn't be room for more than one band in each genre.

So there!



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#24662 03/27/01 11:35 AM
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Many classical music lovers still can't cope with contemporary 'classical' music

Yes, I also listen to a very wide range of music, from very early medieval through to contemporary electronic 'serious' music, with everything from Mozart to Scriabin and Schubert to Shostakovic along the way. Speaking only from my personal slant, BY, I think such generalisations are a bit dodgy, even though you doubtless have a point. I would rather listen to Phillip Glass than most of the mid 20th c. 'post classical' stuff - I would rather go to the dentist than listen to Pierre Boulez! But the particular like and dislikes I have grown to foster over the years (with you on Bowie et al, CK!) probably have little external meaning. Oh, and I hate rap, too - not because of squeemishness over the pathetic self-glory involved, but mainly just because it reduces music from such grand and noble possibilities to such a very small and unsatisfying range of options. For me, it's the current answer to the jew's harp: boring.


#24663 03/27/01 12:43 PM
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> having taken it upon yourself to tell me what I am thinking ...
No Max, I really didn't mean it that way, but rather more generally... I meant that often people, perhaps yourself included, cringe (the use of 'one' often comes across as strange/pretentious; this problem doesn't exist in other languages!).
I could say that I don't like certain parts of music like so called 'progressive rock' (e.g. JT is not for me), but then again Floyd & Yes are worth a good listen. I'm all for listening to a piece of music without (as far as is possible) preconceptions. I've even enjoyed some country tunes, and that's about the most chastised 'type' of music, in my age group at least. Maybe in 20-30 years someone will have the same trouble trying to make me listen. Anyway, I'm happy if you just aviod listening to HH, AND avoid criticising it too, because you lot have got not the foggiest idea about it.
Mav. I agree that it's hard to throw all of the good old 20th century's E-Music in one pile. After all, post-classical stuff was just designed to, amongst other things, p-off advocates of the Strauss dynasty and the like, i.e. as a direct contradiction to Romanticism.
You still don't see much really new music being presented in any great proportions; I mean, a respected Philharmonic wouldn't touch the stuff. It's as though something has got to be old to be respected.


#24664 03/27/01 01:05 PM
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you lot have got not the foggiest idea about it.

Speaking of which--he's titled Eminem, she said sweetly.



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Boring me?

I like rock, and Hindi film music from the period (approx) 1950 - 1970.

Music that sends me to sleep: Indian classical (Northern or Carnatic schools), Western classical (though I can whistle 'The March of the Toreadors' from thingy - Automobilemales), modern jazz (though I can, at times, enjoy old time popular stuff - Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerals and the like), hip-hop/rap call it what you will.

And no, Faldage, I cannot think of a single definition of music that would somehow include "Won't get fooled again" (The Who) and "Laaga, chunari mein daag" (Manna De) without including just about anything else that could pass as music.

Oh and yes - Enya, whalesongs, dolphins mating, birds twittering and rustling through Amazonian forests and so on make me nauseous.

cheer

the sunshine warrior


#24666 03/27/01 01:24 PM
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Personally, I think that rap has a place

One place is the classroom: my brother uses it to teach Asian students English and finds it very effective.


#24667 03/27/01 01:38 PM
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uses it to teach Asian students

That is a truly scary thought.


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