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Some areas of New York City have colorful names, or names with surprising etymologies. Spuytyn Duyvil, at the turbulent confluence of the Harlem and Hudson Rivers, takes its name from the Dutch, "spitting devil," and puts us near not only the Netherlands, but also near the netherworld. The latter is seconded by the less beautifully dubbed, but still more dangerous Hell Gate, which leads From the East River to The Long Island Sound--and from there to Jerusalem, in whose Hinim Valley the Talmud puts the gates of Hell. In the same vein, chique Soho was called "Hells Hundred Acres" by the denizens of its factory lofts (and one of its hook and ladders is still called that). Pearl Street, The Bowery, Wall Street are less imaginative. Spring Street, on the other hand, comes from a fiction of another sort. There never was a spring there at all, but a dry hole and a boondoggle, a scam water project. The pit was used to a hide a murder victim's body, though. Of the "surprising," I know just one. The Rockaways aren't some distant sea-plunked boulder, "Rockaway" was the name of the Native American tribe who lived there, among other places around town.
What about where you live?
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Just to the south of us, in Massachusetts, there's a town called "Pride's Crossing" don't know the original meaning but we think it's apt today in another meaning since a lot of very, very rich folk live there.Twinkling  . wow
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Pride's Crossing
too bad it's in Massachusetts, instead of near Niagara... would make for a great Shaggy Roadsign.
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Inselpeter-- you left out one of my favorites--
All you Homer Simpson fans know it-- Flushing Meadows!
It was the sight of both of NY's world fairs (1939 and 1963)-- but Homer's image of it was priceless!
It was a "salt water marsh" that got improved into a park-- (the swamp was filled in with the cities coal ashes for 30 years or so) but Homer was in desperate need of a bathroom when he saw a bus headed for the location..
He didn't think of the Town of Flushing.. but other thoughts entered his mind!
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Pooh-Bah
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He didn't think of the Town of Flushing.. but other thoughts entered his mind!
Well, if you want to go that route--
In the 70s, an advertisement appeared in the New York Subways; I can't remember what it was for, but the copy was "Brooklyn isn't Flushing."
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Good one... Homer's Odd[sic]yssey!*  I'd always wondered how Flushing got its name. When I lived in Manhattan, my apt was in Chelsea, bordering Clinton. Coincidence, or....? --- *Ænigma wants [ode]
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Ah, Clinton-- the tenderloin district--
From the cop who was assigned to the area, and said-- Oh, it's no more chopped beef for us-- we're eatin' tenderloin now! --
Any one who saw the movie "sleepers" saw bits and peices of Clinton--
As for chelsea-- it was named for the same in england-- just as greenwich villiage was.(and it is till an irish part of town and has some great bars-- next time you're in NY, we can go to Moran's-- 10th Ave and 19th street-- right in the old meatpacking district.
I work steps away from the old "5 corners" -- a worse den of vice was not to be found-- but now at the edge of the civic center.. and all cleaned up.
the expression "23, skiddoo!" is from NY--
Wow-- my Boston area knowledge is not too good--
do you know the kiddy game--
Trot, trot to boston,
trot, trot to lynn?
are boston and lynn very close? Is lynn one of those town swallowed up into greater boston.. and lost?
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Helen, Better chopped beef than chopped liver Yeah, I know that history stuff. I moonlighted as a tour guide atop those double-decker Grayline buses. Chelsea was so named because Clement Clarke Moore (he of "The Night Before Christmas" - or not? Doubt has been shed on his authorship recently) was the local developer, and his family was from Chelsea, London.
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Yes-- i am sure you are right-- that the moore family developed the area and gave it a name..
Peter Stuyvenant had his country house on the east side-- with a long tree lined road coming up to the door-- a bowery-- and a section of NY is still called the bowery-- but now is more associated with bums-- its an area that has not yet been "gentrified" -- Chelsea has been. but parts are still pretty rough--
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I am right. I had to pass three tests.
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In Cincinnati there is a section called Over the Rhein. A canal once flowed through the city just north of downtown and, Cinci being a predominently German town, the canal was dubbed "The Rhein". Over the Rhein is mostly the slums of Cincinnati, but they're trying to improve it.
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are boston and lynn very close? Is lynn one of those town swallowed up into greater boston.. and lost?
Lynn lives! On U.S. Route 1A which hugs the coastline.
Just south of Salem and north of Boston through the cities of Chelsea, Revere and Saugus, all on US 1A.
wow.
GO RED SOX ... Save Fenway Park
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A friend of mine in Spain originally comes from a small village in the north called La Hija de Dios (God's Daughter), which I think is rather a beautiful name for a village... Unfortunately, he doesn't know anything about why it is called like that... 
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Perhaps because She lived there, once.
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In Baltimore there is an area, not too far southeast of downtown, which is an old working-class neighborhood dating back to the 1860's called "Pigtown." It takes its name from the fact that when it was new and for quite a while thereafter, hogs used to be unloaded from railcars at one end of the neighborhood and driven through the main street to the slaughterhouse at the other end. The current residents are very proud of the name.
At the other end of the economic scale is a small enclave in NW Baltimore, not far from my office, dating to the last half of the 18th century called Dickeyville. It was restored in the 1920s and is now a collection of old and quaint houses. A friend of ours who rented a house there for a while insisted on calling it Peckerville.
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Pooh-Bah
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Michigan has a Clinton County and a town named Chelsea. It also has both a Brooklyn and a Flushing, and I understand that the capital city is named after a Lansing, New York. There were many immigrants from NY at one time.
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Pooh-Bah
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In Cincinnati there is a section called Over the Rhein
Insert Wizard of Oz pun here. WHere Is TEd?
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named after a Lansing, New York
Lansing, NY is just north of Ithaca (where the Odyssey ended). Lansing is one of the nine towns that make up Tompkins County. Within the Town of Lansing is the Village of South Lansing. If you're driving north out of Ithaca up the east side of Cayuga Lake you get to a sign the welcomes you to Lansing. Drive a little farther north and you see a sign welcoming you to South Lansing.
Go a little farther up the lake and you will reach Aurora, NY. This is about dead center in the state. About three hours west, near Buffalo, NY is the Town of East Aurora, NY.
Homer, NY, BTW, is about a half hour northeast of Ithaca.
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Clinton is most likely to honor De Witt Clinton-- gov. of NY-- and the man who planned to dig the ditch-- the erie canal-- it help open the near west (ohio, and all of the Great Lakes) to NY -- which gave traders two markets-- more competition, and often better prices-- and since the route wasn't upstream all the way--(as it on the mississippi,) and was shorter--by half! So they could get good from outside markets, and sell their furs, and farm products to a burgeoning new city. It also provided a westward route for people who wanted to leave NY.
In less than 20 years or so, it was replaced by railways-- but for a short while is was a major factor in NY growth-- not just NYC-- but the whole state benefited from gaining access to the near west--I guess maybe Michigan gained too, and got an increase in population, and better trade goods, and maybe an improved economy-- but that didn't get taught in NY civic classes! Clinton is one of a hand full of gov. who's names got pressed into memory.
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Troy is up near Schenectady, NY
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Toronto (ontario,Canada) was/is called "Hog Town" also, for being the main pig slaughter place for Canada. I'm told it was once called "Muddy York", for when it didn't have paved streets (wood was lain down, and then proper roads over time...). Scarborough, part of Metropolitan Toronto on the fringes is dubbed "Scarberia". In winter it really does have the feel of being in Siberia. A few minutes drive from where I live now, North Hampton is called NoHo, as a play on SoHo. Ali
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Burlington's main street takes the hill straight up, from the craggy extremity of the Green Mountain Range to the weird brick mounds of University buildings at the summit. It is called for the trees that lined it once, gave it shade. Magnificent trees! Three basketball players couldn't link arms around the trunk of even the smallest of them. Now, not the plumb-sawed stumps--not the molded trace of inch-thick tabletops let rotting in fall and break-ice spring when the blight hit. Not one tree standing. But the street is still-called, "Elm."
Across the state, in a place they call the Northeast Kingdom if few know why, a road unmarked until they put the 911 system in leads three miles over hills to the hollow. In the seventies, hippies and the folk who hung with hippies built their cabins there, their shacks and teepees. It was already called Lost Nation then, they didn't name it. Who did, a hundred years before or longer, weren't satisfied to live beyond the line of nowhere, in a place that still records the coldest weather in the lower forty-eight. Often, anyway.They wanted further back Who knows why? They had a church and a schoolhouse and a road--they must have known where they were. I can't help wondering who it was they were lost *to*.
***
Agnes Varda at 72. On the image of her hands:
"I look at these hands, the horror of them.."
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Pooh-Bah
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"Within the Town of Lansing is the Village of South Lansing"
Am I right in understanding that a "town" in New York is the equivalent of a "township" in Michigan; ie, a sub-portion of a county. Around here, a "town" is a municipality, smaller than a "city" and larger than a "village."
"...the east side of Cayuga Lake you get to a sign the welcomes you to Lansing. Drive a little farther north and you see a sign welcoming you to South Lansing."
Ha! Lansing, Michigan, is right next to East Lansing, Michigan. Oddly enough, apparently, East Lansing is immediately east of Lansing. Both are municipalities, one is the state capital and the other the home of Michigan State University. GO SPARTANS!
"Homer, NY, BTW, is about a half hour northeast of Ithaca.
Homer, Michigan, is 15 miles west of Jackson and not especially near Ithaca, which is 15 miles south of Mount Pleasant.
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Pooh-Bah
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"Troy is up near Schenectady, NY"Nope. It's a suburb of Detroit. Right next to Rochester.
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Sparteye-- wow, i never realize any of this-- (I have only been to michigan once-- to Kalamazoo) .
I was taught all about the canal, and how it opened the way for westward expantion, and i knew little bits-- but i never realized there was that much movement from NY to Michigan.
The NY state millia was "paid" after the revolutionary war with plots of land upstate --an this help "settle" some of the towns-- and the canal, and great lakes commerce helped to drive the upstate economy--Buffalo is still the second largest city in the state.
Faldage has given all the nice classical names of up state towns/cities-- the ones i always enjoyed were less classical ones, towns like Painted Post and Horsehead--
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Ok, guess it's up to me ...
On State Route 308 in Pennsylvania (west of Philadelphia) there is a town called Intercourse. In the heart of Amish-Mennonite country.
At a seminar I attended, during introductions, one participant noted "I may be the only one here who can legitimately say he left Intercourse to attend this seminar."
A nearby town is called "Bird In Hand."
wow
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in a place that still records the coldest weather in the lower forty-eightHA! she exclaimed leaping to the defence (defense) of her state ... coldest temps recorded are atop OUR Mt. Washington, New Hampshire. Take that, Vermont! wow
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Pooh-Bah
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"Ok, guess it's up to me ...
On State Route 308 in Pennsylvania (west of Philadelphia) there is a town called Intercourse
Penn State University, long famed for its success on the football field, is located in Happy Valley and plays its games in Beaver Stadium.
No wonder they have such success in recruiting.
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have you gone to the top of Mt Washington, Wow? I went once-- i wanted to drive-- but the cog rail won out-- and a good thing-- it was mid July, and 90º at the base-- at the top-- a blizzard and below freezing--a total white out-- we would not have been able to find our way (50 feet or so) from the snack shop back to the railway, except it sound its horn! we couldn't see it until we were only steps away! I was very glad not to driving in that weather!
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Mt. Wash. is not only cold, but the summit is bleak, NH *can* boast of one of the most beautiful places there can possibly be on the East Coast, the Franconia Notch.
Troy: you and I both know, there is no place colder than NY :)
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That may often be true, but E. Haven *does* still often record the coldest temperatures in the lower 48; get out your guns, Ehan Allen, this time the attack's on the easter frontier! :)
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Dear Helen (of troy) I once met a meteorologist who spent some time on Mt. Washington ... listening to his stories about the weather up there dissipated any small inclination I had to make the trip!
I'll make do with the video. The NH PBS station did a good program on the Mountain including shots of the station covered in ice ... and it wasn't even winter!
Oh, if you search for "Mount Washington+New Hampshire" in the quotes, up come several interesting links.
wow
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Yes, Franconia Notch is beautiful, as is Dicksville notch-- and the road up to Errol-- along the Adroscggin river a patch of federally protected wilderness-- along with 7 mile rapids-- some of the best white water for rafting on the East coast is not to be missed either-- but as beautiful as NH is, I think Nova Scotia in canada is better-- it is, i think, the most ruggedly beautiful place on the east coast.
Antigonish in the North is one of those out of the way places-- that everyone should get to--(getting to NS from NY is like driving half way to Europe--almost 1500 miles!)
(and what is a gonish anyway that people are against it?)
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(and what is a gonish anyway that people are against it?)
Gaw nichts! (Gar nichts! ("nothing") :)) :))
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Intercourse PA
I was waiting for someone to mention the famous Lancaster county town(s). Indeed, Intercourse is about 4 miles east of Bird in Hand on Rt. 308.
BUT WAIT -- THERE'S MORE (as they say in TV commercials):
If you go from Bird in Hand south 1 mi. to Rt. 30 and east 2 miles, you come to Paradise. On the other hand (or other something) if you go from Intercourse north about 5 mi. to Rt. 23 thence east about 6 mi. to the junction with Rt. 322, you are in the town of Blue Ball. You can make the whole circuit in a half hour and the area between Rt. 30 and Rt. 23 is beautiful and interesting, as most of the farms are owned by either Mennonites or Amish. (You can tell which ones are Amish -- they have no power lines or telephone lines and you are likely to see the peculiar clothes hanging outside on lines to dry.)
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"Troy is up near Schenectady, NY"
Nope. It's a suburb of Detroit. Right next to Rochester.
Oh, c'mon now, Rochester isn't any where near Schenectady! It's a good four hour drive on the Thruway!
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Geez, Sparteye, you guys stole all our town names. Next thing you're gone tell me you got South Lyon there in Michigan. Yes, a town is the equivalent of a township. You cannot be outside of a town in NYS (NYC may be an exception to this) Some towns have cities in them or some cities may even encompass several towns. Some towns will have villages (certain population required to count as a village) or hamlets (fewer people than a village) and some are just towns with no subcategories within them. Some other classical names in my neck-o-the-woods; Rome, Romulus, Etna, Podunk, Cincinnatus... What, you say Podunk's not classical? Well, it is around here! Hmmph!  (Hi, E)
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Who called Podunk "Podunk" and why does it have such a bad reputation, anyway?
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Yes, i think you are right, Faldage-- (oh and by the by, before i forget--it's coming up to the new year isn't it? Happy New Year)
NYC is made up of 5 NYstate counties-- NY county (manhattan) Kings county(Brooklyn) Richmond county (Staten Island, Queens county and Bronx county. the only "towns" that survive are on a federal level--
every county, (in NYC) has 1 "Central Post Office" and 1 Post master general-- except for Queens- Queens county had 3 town, each with its own "central PostOffice, and post master general-- before it joined NYC, and it still does! the three "towns" are Long Island City, Flushing, and Jamaca. So there are 3 major zip code groups for queens 112, 113,114-- Manhattan has 2, 100 and 101-- but 101 is really a building code-- some building in NY are large enough to get there own zip code.. and then 101 is used--
There has been for years, talk of 1 central post office for queens-- but Post master general is an appointed postition-- out side the reach of civil service-- no one want to lose the "patronage" job--.
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I like that; I can say I come from New York, New York, New York :)
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I like that; I can say I come from New York, New York, New York :)Start spreading the news-news, already
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Start spreading the news-news, already
N'york, N'york, N'york.
I saw that, F.!
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"Next thing you're gone tell me you got South Lyon there in Michigan."
Of course. It is about 10 miles north of Ann Arbor. I have friends who live there.
"Some other classical names in my neck-o-the-woods; Rome, Romulus, Etna, Podunk, Cincinnatus.
Michigan has a Rome Center, a Romulus, and two Podunks. Did I mention that a lot of New Yorkers settled here?
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A friend of mine in Spain originally comes from a small village in the north called La Hija de Dios (God's Daughter), which I think is rather a beautiful name for a village... Unfortunately, he doesn't know anything about why it is called like that... I was looking over Bridget96's bio this morning and think I am safe in saying Hija de Dios derives its name from Bridget having once been seen there; but, since she *is* a goddess, it would be unseemly to speculate in what century this may have been. ... Something else just occurred* to me. If our goddess has a bio, surely the verb form of "to live" applies** to the Divine. This would suggest an answer to harrysiegel's query under "lives" in "Q&As about words." I will have to amend my early opinion and say "God enters our hearts and lives" means "God enters our hearts and dwells there." To forestall any peanut gallery mumblings, this is no plug for religion, but a stopper (meant ludely, not lewdly): A new Divine rises on our shorter time horizon; Her number is 96. *"To occur to" is an interesting expression, think? **Can a thing be said to apply *to* God, or can it only be said to be an attribute *of* God? And if a thing *can* be said to apply to God, a a verb be such a *thing*? (PGMs, again, are out of place)
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And because someone mentioned "the longest word that isn't a Welsh Town", a story about Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.
- When I was a grubby teenager we had codewords based on place names we wrote on "love-letter" envelopes: BURMA=Be Undressed Ready my Angel; Norwich=(k)Nickers Off Ready When I Come Home, etc. You get the picture, right? The august Daily Telegraph had a competition a few years ago for some new ones, and Llan... won with a phrase starting "Listen Love, Accountancy's No Fun.." and ending up "Oh God, Oh God, Oh Christ, Hanky!"
I didn't find the complete answer with Google yet - can anyone post it?
Ro* Ward
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A new Divine rises on our shorter time horizon; Her number is 96.ahhhhh if it were only true, my dear. lest this get out of hand, let me take this chance to assure you - one and all - that my stated profession was a capricious misnomer, which could have been equalled only if tsuwm had've listed his as "simpleton" (sorry to pick on you, tsuwm; i had a whole list going in my mind but feared i'd leave someone out in my indirect praises). bottom line is i just thought 'goddess' sounded a bit more catchy than '7-years without a degree college dropout, currently unemployed'. [retreating back to Olympus to dine on her mid-morning ambrosia emoticon]
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Fascinating stuff, Rod. I wonder where our resident Taffy is to fill us in. Maybe in the meantime, you'd like to start trying to build a story out of a really long place name Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuaakitanarahu And don't come back 'til you're done, y'hear!
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Rod, those are great! And Max, who's Taffy?
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"Taffy" is a generic term for a Welshman. I have always assumed it's a corruption of Daffydd, the Welsh "David"
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"Taffy" is a generic term for a Welshman. I have always assumed it's a corruption of DaffyddOk, will someone please explain Taffy? And I doubt that a man from Wales is a daffydowndilly!
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Jackie, I'm deadly serious. "Daffydd", or however the Welsh spell it, is a very common Welsh name, it is "David." From that name, has come the use of "Taffy" to refer to any Welshman, in the same way that "Paddy" is used as a generic term for an Irishman, and "Jimmy" for Glaswegians.
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And between Lewes and Newhaven in East Sussex, UK is the small village "Tarring Neville". Who Neville is/was and why he should be tarred, I have been unable to find out.
Ro* Ward
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Well, I sneaked a couple in before this:
Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuaakitanarahu
The Adventure
Usually Mark awoke terrified and worried.
He always knew a tired and nervous ghetto inhabitant had absolutely no glamour, and kids
only another untouchable.
An unusually optimistic tone announced Mark's attempt to end a truly unfulfilling reality.
"I'll pack underwear, (knickers and keks), and panties (in mauve)."
An unworldy noise grated across his obsessive ramblings,
Oh No! Uncle Kevin upstairs probably, or Kevin's Aunt Isobel whistling.
His emnity newly uplifted, acquiring a knife, impassioned, the avenger
noiselessly and relentlessly advancing himself upstairs....
If you want an ending, you'll have to find a longer place name!
Rod Ward
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Pooh-Bah
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<<daffyd, or however the Welsh write it>>
How do the speak it, specifically the "y"?
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As I recall (I am half Welsh and learnt a little) the "y" in Daffyd is like "i" in "in", "is", "it", or even "David".
But in "Ar Hyd Y Nos" (All Through the Night)it is an "ee" sound. I will see if I have names in my Welsh Dictionary with English proununciations (or ask my aunt, or wait for a better post!)
Ro* Ward
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Daffydd would tranliterate to something like the SE phonemes of DAH-vith. The double 'ff' makes the /f/ sound, whereas single 'f' = /v/ as there is no such letter in the Welsh alphabet. In Ar Hyd Y Nos I think I would render it something like Ar~rrrrr Heed Er Noss (like 'norse' without the rhotic sound!) So the two examples of 'y' seem to be pronounced very differently, depending on context. (But bear in mind I am not even half-Welsh, indeed - just interested in language and living in Wales, so I am happy to be corrected by Auntie Myfanwy )
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The posts have gone a bit wide again. To read have to move bar so it obscures poster"s name. On my screen it started with your post, Max. (Ducking head and cringing for embarrassing MQ) But then perhaps it's just me.  wow
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it started with your post, MaxYou should see the roadsign..!
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Maverick << You should see the roadsign.. >>! I'd love to ... is that an invitation? Have passport, will travel. wow
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On my screen it started with your post, MaxSorry about that. Mav's right, you should see the road sign! It's something of a tourist attraction, about an hour and a half from my place. Quite why anybody would want to drive into the middle of nowhere to some utterly unremarkable hill just to take a photo of themselves next to a road sign is beyond me. 
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And the "Y" in "CYMRU" (WALES) is prounounced more like the "W" in "CWM" - is that right?
Rod Ward
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I visited my aunts this weekend and was reminded during the journey of a placename I have wondered about for years. On the road out of Gloucester (p. Gloster) to Birdlip (do birds HAVE lips?) there is a sign to "Cold Slad". Now it is obvious to me that this was originally for some bizarre reason called "Cold SAlad" and at some stage for an equally bizarre reason dropped an "a" along the way. But a couple of years ago in Scotland I found out the "a" was on holiday (or had been kidnapped) but was now living in a place called "Aira Force".
Does anybody know of other places that have gained or lost letters and can we pair them up?
Rod
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Pooh-Bah
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Ah, Rodward, you have touched upon a pet theory of mine.
The theory of vowel migration
which is that, in the past, the people of Eastern Europe and the people of Hawaii were one. However, a great dispute arose between two large groups of the people, and in order to avoid massive war, the two groups agreed to go their separate ways. In doing so, they allocated the parent group's resources between them, and when it came to the language, the Eastern Europeans took all the consonants, while the Hawaiians took all the vowels.
Now, the Welch were apparently all mixed up in this too, but didn't go with either group, and ended up confusing their consonants and their vowels.
And the Chinese and Japanese didn't get either, and had to settle for pictures.
The end.
[raising-shield-to-ward-off-rotten-tomatoes-and-other-feedback emoticon]
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Sparteye - thanks for that one. It reminds me of Paul Merton's question about what happened when Czechoslavakia split. The Czechs and Slovaks each got their own republic, but where did all the "o"s go?
Rod
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Sparteye, This is an eerie case of "great minds think alike" or, if you prefer, independent discovery of fire. A while back I alluded to The Great Vowel Movement, but apparently never got around to posting it. In my theory, it was the Finns and the Hungarians, once warring neighboring tribes existing in what is now roughly Estonia, who split the spoils (but never the infinitives).
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Pooh-Bah
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"This is an eerie case of "great minds think alike" or, if you prefer, independent discovery of fire.Or, possibly, we can only come up with one idea between us. To share my thought with you, delighted I am. I am Mr Bell to your Mr Gray.
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