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#23593 - 03/19/01 04:39 PM Re: values verification excercise
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
i vaguely remember the movie--

and as i recall the offer was made to the husband-- in which case he is selling something he doesn't "own" -- that is use of his wifes body--- and even if it was made to Demi-- she again is selling something-- Either the husband was a pimp, or she was a whore-- the transaction was exclusively about money for sex--

Marion was sacrificing something for a greater good-- (Robin and John freedom)

So i see i difference between just selling something, and making an effort for a better good-.
Schindler (of Schinders List) made money using jewish slave labor-- but what redeemed his behavior was his real effort to save the live of the jews who had been made into slaves.

He could have taken a "high" road--- and never used the slaves (and many more might have been killed) he could have taken the "low" road-- and just use the jews as slaves... He did his best to save lifes-- which meant he used slaves.. but he also worked to save the live of everyone who worked for him.

I think Marion's decision was similar.. Not perfect-- but the best she (or anyone) could do, in the circumstances.

_________________________
my other obsession

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#23594 - 03/19/01 05:18 PM Re: values verification excercise
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
It would be interesting to know how the evaluations of the different choices were arrived at, and this is not a gripe at the interpretation offered for my rankings.


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#23595 - 03/19/01 05:18 PM Re: values verification excercise
Max Quordlepleen Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
My assessment is based on an assumption, but one that is unconnected with gender. I am assuming that Marion's own code of morality included a belief that sleeping with someone other than her life partner was wrong. On that basis, Marion violated her own morality, albeit for the noblest of reasons. If the tables had been turned, I would have concluded the same thing about Robin.
My own personal code of morality makes no allowance for judging the actions of others, but to the core of my being I hope that if ever I were presented with a choice like Marion's I would not violate that personal morality, whatever the cost. You asked
If i could save the world by lieing down with the devil-- what would be the right thing to do? Value myself more than the world? -- Is that moral? and I would never presume to answer that question for anyone other than myself. For myself, lying down with the devil is out of the question, under any circumstances.

In addition, I do not think that Marion's actions made her a slut. Assuming that she had violated her own code of ethics, she would need support, loyalty and consolation, not abuse or condemnation. Her noble motives also must be taken into account. I know of people who have betrayed their own morality under immense pressure and who were helped to recover from doing so by the compassion and understanding of those around them.

I am a lazy sod, and I like living my life by a simple set of values. I have no interest in expecting others to live by my values, or in condemning them for not doing so. I also know that I have never yet been placed in the sort of situation under discussion, where personal morality would be sorely tried. I am, however, proud to know several people who have had their personal morality grievously tested, and who passed those tests. I can but hope that I would do as they did.




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#23596 - 03/19/01 05:18 PM Re: values verification excercise
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
>is there something missing or malformatted in the "test" as pasted? if so, I can go back and try to fix....

Yes some crucial parts were missing for me, I recaptured them all by highlighting the whole post and copying into Word. The missing bits magically re-appeared!


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#23597 - 03/19/01 05:26 PM Re: values verification excercise
jmh Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
>I put Marian first ...

Bill, I'm with you on this one. I think the Sheriff has to be at the bottom, he abused his power. Marion, did her best in the circumstances, I'd throw Robin to the lions!

I think we should be setting aside funding for Marion and Little John to receive post tramuatic counselling, can't imagine how anyone got by without it! Perhaps we could have a chat with Father Steve about the legal case, it would have to be worth a bob or two.

Helen - the film Robert Redford, Demi Moore was called "Indecent Proposal" (I'm still not convinced that any woman could have turned down Robert Redford in his earlier years, unless you had to choose between him and Paul Newman!)


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#23598 - 03/19/01 05:39 PM Re: values verification excercise
Max Quordlepleen Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
Marion, did her best in the circumstances, I'd throw Robin to the lions!

Marion did make a difficult choice for reasons that seemed best to her. The issue of whether the Sheriff had done anything wrong in arresting a known thief and his accomplices seems relevant here. Robin would have had no right to criticise Marion's flexible ethics, given that he justified actions that were illegal, and no doubt considered immoral by some, on the basis of "the greater good." Where does one draw the line? I have heard that good intentions can make dangerous paving stones.



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#23599 - 03/19/01 05:52 PM Re: values verification excercise
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
I found a whole separate site by typing into Yahoo search box just "Robin Hood, Maid Marion" and scrolling down a bit.
Easier to read also.
Forgive repetition, I would like to know how the thing was judged by the people that set it up.


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#23600 - 03/19/01 07:53 PM Re: values verification excercise
Capital Kiwi Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/00
Posts: 3146
Loc: Northamptonshire, England
I put Little John, the Sheriff and the newly made Marian on a par with LJ just a smidgeon ahead. Not catered for in the evaluation. I just love opportunists and idealists, especially when they meet!

_________________________
The idiot also known as Capfka ...

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#23601 - 03/20/01 04:32 AM Re: values verification excercise
Marianna Offline
addict

Registered: 01/09/01
Posts: 427
Loc: Spain
I ranked them the same as Sparteye. As the header to the story says, you must forget any prejudgment of the characters in order to be able to see their actions in an objective way and assign moral worth to them. This may be done with characters who are only names on a screen (though we do know just how much of the stories we know about them we must forget). But, as I see it, it's impossible to take such an objective view of real people's actions, especially when they are people we care about...



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#23602 - 03/20/01 05:48 AM Re: values verification excercise
shanks Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 1004
Loc: London, UK
math(s) aside: if ties were figured in, how many p&c is that to account for?

57?


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