Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
#21037 03/04/01 09:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427
Fathes Steve is right, there IS a term that describes the phonological process of consonants changing places within a word (due to whichever reason). It would apply to his example of "anominity". Unfortunately, as fate would have it, I have so completely forgotten it that no amount of cogitation has sufficed to bring it back.

I do, however, vaguely remember the example that illustrated the definition. It was about the Spanish word "murciélago", meaning "bat". Apparently, it evolved from a Latin word or expression that had two lexical components, "mur" (from "mus/muris", meaning "mouse") and something like "*caecalus/*caegalus" (from "caecus", meaning "blind"). Throughout the long period of of linguistic change, the "g" and the "l" got switched around, giving us the word "murciélago", which we use now.

I would absolutely love someone coming up with the name for this phenomenon. I shall keep on trying to remember anyway...




#21038 03/04/01 09:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
J
old hand
Offline
old hand
J
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094
the Spanish word "murciélago", meaning "bat".

I find it rather strange that Spanish would use a more subtle feature of the bat to make it's name - "blind mouse" rather than "flying mouse". And if the word is very old, how would they have known that bats have poor vision? Just because they're nocturnal?


#21039 03/04/01 10:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 427
Jazzoctopus wonders why the Spanish would use a more subtle feature of the bat to make it's name - "blind mouse" rather than "flying mouse"

I think I may safely say that we are not really aware that we are talking about "blind" mice. Nowadays, "murciélago" doesn't give away its etymology so easily. For one thing, the consonantal change makes it more difficult to relate "ciélago" to our word for "blind", which is just "ciego". More importantly, though, our contemporary word for "mouse" has nothing to do with the Latin "mus/muris"!! Spanish mice are always "ratones".

As to how the ancient speakers of Latin knew that bats were blind or nearly, I seem to remember that there are some types that don't even have eyes?? That would be a definite sign. Also the fact that they were nocturnal, and possibly the way they fly around, almost crashing into objects and then deftly avoiding them at the last moment when they detect them.




#21040 03/05/01 03:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
>a term that describes the phonological process of consonants changing places within a word

I may not be thinking of exactly the same thing, but the grammatical term for the interchange of position between sounds or letters in a word is metathesis.


#21041 03/05/01 11:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
FWIW, the Portuguese word for "bat" is a cognate of the Spanish word: morcego.


#21042 03/05/01 01:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
Rapunzel said: How about ignorance?

Oh dear me, no. Don't you realise how judgmental that is? You could disturb their frail little psyches for ever by this indiscriminate use of speech. They might suck their thumbs, lose their self-respect, become mere shadows of their former selves if such implied criticism were allowed. No, indeedy - we must overcome such tendencies to claim that people might be different in their abilities.

We have already prevented schoolboys from playing games in which they actually score points (who tawdry and competitive), and we are now after your language. Anything you say that might suggest a differential in ability will be firmly censured (though of course we are all for free speech)...

Yours &c

The Procrustean English Society




#21043 03/05/01 01:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,004
Since your post about bats and their odd flying ways, I simply had to add this old chestnut: our word 'butterfly' comes, as far as I know, from the original 'flutterby', when the consonantal sounds were interchanged (through the process whose name even the mighty tsuwm has not yet authoritatively posted).

"Noralottapeepulnothat"

the sunshine "Harry Carter" warrior


#21044 03/05/01 02:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,773
My hubby had all he could do not to remark out loud during a meeting with the Big Bosses of the department store chain he used to work for, when the Chairman enthusiastically spoke of a new item they were stocking, which had a "beautiful placenta color."


#21045 03/05/01 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
W
wwh Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Dear Sparteye: When the Boss was born, they should have thrown him away and kept the magenta placenta.


#21046 03/05/01 03:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
B
veteran
Offline
veteran
B
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,289
My first reaction. But on second thought, a quick look at the on-line thesaurus (under "inarticulate") yields some better suggestions, such as, tongue-tied, faltering, mumbling, maundering.


Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,317
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 596 guests, and 1 robot.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,534
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5