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#209106 - 01/17/13 02:13 AM Re: Determinism [Re: Faldage]
Jackie Offline

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we will never know all the data about anything. What about the multiplication table?

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#209110 - 01/17/13 08:40 AM Re: Determinism [Re: Jackie]
Faldage Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jackie
we will never know all the data about anything. What about the multiplication table?


Fine. Why does 2x2=4?

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#209112 - 01/17/13 11:19 AM [Re: Faldage]
zmjezhd Offline
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Why does 2x2=4?

Is the answer to "why" data? Or is it "theory".

I figure that 2x2=4 is axiomatic. Same as those "parallel lines that never meet" sort of thing.

A good book to read about why the weather forecasts often are incorrect is James Gleick's Chaos: Making a New Science.
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

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#209232 - 01/24/13 12:45 AM Re: [Re: Jackie]
jenny jenny Offline
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Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1554
Loc: Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi
"Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect as well as the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper."
- Albert Einstein

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#209247 - 01/25/13 06:16 AM Re: [Re: jenny jenny]
BranShea Offline
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Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
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TH3 P13D P1P3R, TH3 ON3 TH4T 1NT0N35
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1M H4PP7 T0 L1V3 UND3R TH3 1MPR35510N
TH4T I C4N M4K3 CH01C3C FR0M T1M3 TO
T1M3.

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#209248 - 01/25/13 07:34 AM Re: [Re: Jackie]
Faldage Offline
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On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays I think we have free will but that the results of our ability to choose are swamped by the chaos that we live in. On Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays I think that our actions are determined but that chaos of things makes those causes incalculable.

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#209249 - 01/25/13 08:43 AM Re: [Re: Faldage]
BranShea Offline
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smile Maybe once one has fundamentally accepted chaos as an 8-days a week reality, to believe in free choice or its illusions is easier.

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#209255 - 01/25/13 11:06 PM Re: Mumbo Jumbo [Re: BranShea]
jenny jenny Offline
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Registered: 06/05/10
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Loc: Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi
"Nothing in education is so astonishing as the amount of ignorance it accumulates in the form of inert facts."
_______________________________ Henry Brooks Adams(1838-1918)historian

Branshe and Jackie; Determinism is not something we understand with words. We understand determinism through our interactions with the world about us. The crocodile silently waits [progressive time] until a tasty antelope stops at the water's edge for a quick drink [cause] SNAP! [effect].
And so it is with every event that we humans and lowly bugs, etc. have observed with our senses since senses began.

And words and systems of words can't change that fact.
Unless, that is, we come to understand words in a new light.



Edited by jenny jenny (01/26/13 01:46 AM)

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#209263 - 01/26/13 10:40 PM Re: Mumbo Jumbo [Re: Jackie]
Jackie Offline

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Hmm. Are you saying that, for example, Person A slaps Person B in the face, then A will slap B? Or just likely that A will slap B? Or how about just possibly A will slap B?

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#209264 - 01/26/13 11:01 PM Re: Mumbo Jumbo [Re: Jackie]
tsuwm Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jackie
Hmm. Are you saying that, for example, Person A slaps Person B in the face, then A will slap B? Or just likely that A will slap B? Or how about just possibly A will slap B?


I think you've got your 'then' turned around; if so, the result is indeterminate as set up.
grin

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