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#208196 - 12/01/12 02:39 PM I toiled under / in the scorching sun.
Lionel Koh Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 41
I toiled under / in the scorching sun, carrying heavy golf bags.

Should 'under' or 'in' be used?

Thanks.

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#208198 - 12/01/12 05:53 PM Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. [Re: Lionel Koh]
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Either is OK.

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#208212 - 12/05/12 05:42 AM Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. [Re: Lionel Koh]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
"At noon, farmers are weeding under the scorching sun"
Their sweat dripping down onto the ground.
Each and every grain of rice in your bowl
is the fruit of the toiling farmers."

Tang-Dynasty Poet Li Shen.

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#208241 - 12/06/12 06:49 PM Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. [Re: BranShea]
Rhubarb Commando Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 1074
Loc: Lancaster, UK
Lord Macaulay, in his epic poem, Virginia, favours "under."

"Here, in this very Forum, under the noonday sun,
In the sight of all the people, the bloody deed was done."

But Noel Coward - also a superb crafter of the English language - favours, "in."

"Mad dogs and Englishmen
Go out in the noonday sun."

That your pick, as the site foreman said to the confused Irishman, as he offered him the choice of two shovels.
_________________________
I'm immortal until proven otherwise

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#208262 - 12/08/12 04:46 PM Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. [Re: Rhubarb Commando]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Agree, they both are good shovels. Somehow I associate 'under' sooner with tossing and toiling and solemn things;
'in' with outdoor leisure s.a. sunbathing. Just down to earth things which bring me back to your shovels.

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#208268 - 12/09/12 06:01 PM Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. [Re: BranShea]
jenny jenny Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1554
Loc: Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi
Good point, Branshe.

What imprecise speakers like Noel Coward mean when they say "in the sun" is "into the sun" with the "to" implied. This is nonsense unless they include the rays and effects of sun as parts of its corporeal body.

Everyone can walk beneath the real sun.
No one I know can walk into the sun. smile

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#208271 - 12/09/12 06:46 PM Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. [Re: jenny jenny]
Rhubarb Commando Offline
old hand

Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 1074
Loc: Lancaster, UK
I don't think that Coward was implying "into" (quite apart ffrom the fact that he needed a word that scanned!)
His use is similar to that of Dorothy Slade's words (to Julian Reynolds tune) in Salad Days, "I sit in the Sun/ and one by one/I collect my thoughts/ And i think them over;"
Slade could well have used "under" in this context, but scansion, again, takes precedence. However, the two words are not inevitably interchangeable: if one talks of, "all beasts ubder the sun ..." one could not use "in". Nor could you really use "under" in the phrase in, "I am sweltering in the sun's direct rays."
_________________________
I'm immortal until proven otherwise

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#208276 - 12/09/12 08:29 PM Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. [Re: Rhubarb Commando]
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Rhuby says well.

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#208279 - 12/10/12 12:08 AM Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. [Re: Faldage]
jenny jenny Offline
veteran

Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1554
Loc: Lower Aberdeen, Mississippi
Originally Posted By: Faldage
Rhuby says well.


Yes, Faldage. And therein lies the conflict.

Did Rhuby say "well" or is it what Rhuby has said that is well?

"In the sun" serves poetry and street speak well but would not be acceptable if used in a science paper unless one was actually going into the sun. But we quibble.

Of course we quibble. Everyone here has spoken millions and millions of words so we are all language experts. Aren't you? smile

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#208285 - 12/10/12 06:19 AM Re: I toiled under / in the scorching sun. [Re: jenny jenny]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Yet Rhuby says well. Depending on the context interchangeable or not. The examples are fine.

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