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#204039 - 01/04/12 11:38 AM Re: Euphemism/Double Entendre - Help Me! [Re: Faldage]
tsuwm Offline
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any questions regarding which side of this issue AName came down on?! grin

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#204040 - 01/04/12 12:54 PM double entendres have to be a little dirty. [Re: tsuwm]
wofahulicodoc Offline
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Loc: Worcester, MA
It would be a euphenmism to call it "risque" instead of "dirty."

I use euphemism to mean an acceptable substitute for an unacceptable [pick your part of speech]. "Custodial engineer" for "janitor" springs to mind, janitor being interpretable as degrading, lower-caste, shameful, undesirable, and generally negative if you are inclined to take it so. No double-meaning there at all.

"Takes a lot of brass to play the tuba" is a pun by virtue of the tuba being made of a lot of brass, but it isn't a double-entendre since there's nothing salacious about the implied meaning. Even though it does indeed have two meanings: nerve, and metal (mettle?).

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#204042 - 01/04/12 01:33 PM Re: Euphemism/Double Entendre - Help Me! [Re: tsuwm]
AlphanumericName Offline
stranger

Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 8
Originally Posted By: tsuwm
any questions regarding which side of this issue AName came down on?! grin


Yeah I'm still in the camp that they are somewhat similar, I believe I mentioned it on my second post.

And I feel the longer the discussion is the less I'm grasping the specific use for each. One thing I still stand by, which was my original point, is that they both use words/phrases to mask the real words/phrases.



Edited by AlphanumericName (01/04/12 01:34 PM)

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#204043 - 01/04/12 02:31 PM Re: double entendres have to be a little dirty. [Re: wofahulicodoc]
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Originally Posted By: wofahulicodoc


"Takes a lot of brass to play the tuba" is a pun by virtue of the tuba being made of a lot of brass, but it isn't a double-entendre since there's nothing salacious about the implied meaning. Even though it does indeed have two meanings: nerve, and metal (mettle?).


The dictionaries I've looked it up in agree that the definition of double-entendre is 'a word or expression with a double meaning' adding 'especially when one is salacious or risqué.' In other words, the risqué qualification is common but not necessary.

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#204044 - 01/04/12 02:33 PM Re: Euphemism/Double Entendre - Help Me! [Re: AlphanumericName]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
hunch

a euphmism is a word that is used as a replacement in order to soften or obscure the meaning of an ugly or unpleasant word.

A double entendre is a word that is used to transmit a veiled message. (though obvious enough to be understood)

In a way the are opposites. (I think)
One to obscure against one to reveal.

(A double entendre can go for sexual insinuations, irony, insults and maybe much more)

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#204045 - 01/04/12 05:17 PM Euphemisms again [Re: BranShea]
wofahulicodoc Offline
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Posts: 4992
Loc: Worcester, MA
Euphemism, intended to obscure:

"Young man, despair,
Likewise go to,
Yum-Yum the fair
You must not woo.
It will not do,
I'm sorry for you,
You very imperfect ablutioner!"
-- Pooh-Bah, in The Mikado, Act I

Translation: You stink! (Or at the very least -- you need a bath...)

Ernest Bramah, in his Kai Lung books, sparkles with many more of these. And he makes you think they're compliments. Until you decipher them...

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#204047 - 01/04/12 08:50 PM Re: Euphemisms again [Re: AlphanumericName]
Avy Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 724
Another question is euphemism more similar to irony than it is to double entendre? I think it is in that both involve substitution. How do they differ then? Is the substituted word/phrase in irony necessarily opposite to the real meaning; while in euphemism there is a slight extension of meaning. I think euphemism is similar to DE only in that DE is complete extension while euphemism is part substitution and part extension.
PS: is a raven like a writing desk?

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#204050 - 01/04/12 11:38 PM Re: Euphemism/Double Entendre - Help Me! [Re: AlphanumericName]
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
dou·ble-en·ten·dre (dbl-än-tändr, d-blä-tädr) KEY

NOUN:

A word or phrase having a double meaning, especially when the second meaning is risqué.
The use of such a word or phrase; ambiguity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETYMOLOGY:
Obsolete French : double, double + entendre, to mean, interpretation

AHD

eu·phe·mism (yf-mzm) KEY

NOUN:

The act or an example of substituting a mild, indirect, or vague term for one considered harsh, blunt, or offensive: "Euphemisms such as 'slumber room' . . . abound in the funeral business" (Jessica Mitford).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETYMOLOGY:
Greek euphmismos, from euphmizein, to use auspicious words, from euphmi, use of auspicious words : eu-, eu- + phm, speech; see bh-2 in Indo-European roots

AHD

A double entendre, most of the time, is not used as a replacement, but in and of itself. That is, the writer or speaker chose the word(s) specifically because it would have a double meaning. I finally thought of an example: a man is recounting a visit wherein a buxom woman showed him her garden, and he says, "She has great cantaloupes". Had he not wanted to make the joke he might have simply said she has a nice garden.

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#204052 - 01/05/12 01:01 AM Re: Euphemism/Double Entendre - Help Me! [Re: AlphanumericName]
Tromboniator Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 832
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: AlphanumericName
Originally Posted By: Tromboniator
"It takes a lot of brass to play all those trombones in a dorm at 3:00 AM." Double entendre, no euphemism.


Isn't brass a euphemism for something else, such as "It takes a lot of balls..." But you replace it with 'brass' as to not offend, which is what euphemisms are.


Nope. It's brass as in brazen (made of brass), hard, resistant. Much older than "a lot of balls." It's analogy, but it isn't euphemism.

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#204054 - 01/05/12 01:20 AM Re: Euphemism/Double Entendre - Help Me! [Re: Tromboniator]
AlphanumericName Offline
stranger

Registered: 01/03/12
Posts: 8
Originally Posted By: Tromboniator
Originally Posted By: AlphanumericName
Originally Posted By: Tromboniator
"It takes a lot of brass to play all those trombones in a dorm at 3:00 AM." Double entendre, no euphemism.


Isn't brass a euphemism for something else, such as "It takes a lot of balls..." But you replace it with 'brass' as to not offend, which is what euphemisms are.


Nope. It's brass as in brazen (made of brass), hard, resistant. Much older than "a lot of balls." It's analogy, but it isn't euphemism.


LoL I believe certain balls precede Brass by a long shot. -_-

Also I am floored by the quality of input from all of you, I'm glad I brought my question here. I believe I will cede my position on this matter after reading you're replies, but not entirely though.

I feel there is something in my belief which still stands true, I might not be making my point across as well as I'd like though since a few replies do sort of mention the similarity I believe exists but I believe Avy said it best

"Why is a raven like a desk?"

Why indeed... smile

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