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#191796 - 07/04/10 09:53 AM Serape
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Quite a large part of the words that turn up in the slow anagram
thread are new to me. Like serape f.i.:A long blanketlike shawl, often brightly colored and fringed at the ends, worn especially by Mexican men.
ETYMOLOGY: American Spanish sarape.

This is all the etymology I could find. But would sarape not have come from 'écharpe'(fr)via Spanish or directly by via French on their occupation of Mexico? It must be connected to: Dutch word 'sjerp' and German:

Schärpe:
Der Ausdruck Schärpe (auch Leibbinde; von französisch écharpe: Armbinde) bezeichnet ein breites zur Kleidung getragenes Band.
Im 14. und 15. Jahrhundert trug man die Schärpe meist quer um den Leib oder über die rechte Schulter zur linken Hüfte. Sie entwickelte sich später zum Abzeichen von kriegführenden Parteien. Mit der Entwicklung der Uniformierung zeichneten sie nur noch Offiziere aus. Später wurde sie jedoch nur noch bei Paraden getragen und im täglichen Dienst durch die Feldbinde ersetzt.
Die höchsten Orden werden seit etwa 1600 im Allgemeinen an einer Schärpe getragen.
Als Element der spanischen Nationaltracht, siehe Faja.

(Brush up your German)

The Zarape in Mexico is more like a poncho then like a shawl or binding.

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#191798 - 07/04/10 12:28 PM Re: Serape [Re: BranShea]
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3286
Loc: R'lyeh
Offhand, I do not know for sure, but the first citation in the OED (online), in English, is 1834, about 3 decades before the French intervention in Mexico. There is no etymology offered in the Spanish Royal Academy's dictionary or the OED. I look around for one.
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

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#191799 - 07/04/10 02:33 PM Re: Serape [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Yes, I know that was a wild guess. But I also found this:

Word Origin & History. serape. type of shawl, 1834, from Mex.Sp. sarape, probably from Nahuatl, but exact source difficult to identify source because there ...
dictionary.reference.com/browse/serape


I think these words can hardly be related, while écharpe, sjerp, Schärpe were in use In Europe before the 17th century. A Spanish Etymology site does not regocnize the word se-sarape.So I am just curious (bad habit)about the link between écharpe/sjerp/Schärpe and serape when there is no obvious Spanish intermediar.

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#191805 - 07/04/10 11:31 PM Re: Serape [Re: BranShea]
Jackie Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11605
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
écharpe, sjerp, Schärpe---> scarf?

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#191807 - 07/05/10 07:44 AM Re: Serape [Re: Jackie]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Yes, I think it's all related, but I'm just an amateur detective.

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#191812 - 07/05/10 11:54 AM Re: Serape [Re: BranShea]
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3286
Loc: R'lyeh
I think it's all related

Yes, they are all related, except for serape, as far as I can tell.
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

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#191818 - 07/05/10 01:40 PM Re: Serape [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
smile Poor word, lost in space.

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#191819 - 07/05/10 03:48 PM Re: Serape [Re: BranShea]
kah454 Offline
journeyman

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 95
Loc: Long Island, NY USA
It might be a native word from the area of Northern Mexico (Chichimeca) that crept into the language to describe this type of fringed poncho.

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#191821 - 07/05/10 04:42 PM Re: Serape [Re: kah454]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Yes, thanks, could be. It is just that phonetically serape and our word sjerp are really that very close. It's OK. Sjerp is like serape pronounced with a lisp. laugh

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#191831 - 07/06/10 08:18 AM Re: Serape [Re: BranShea]
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13783
Originally Posted By: BranShea
Yes, thanks, could be. It is just that phonetically serape and our word sjerp are really that very close. It's OK. Sjerp is like serape pronounced with a lisp. laugh


This sort of coincidence happens all the time in language. So many concepts, so few sounds.

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