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#183710 - 03/19/09 01:13 PM schwerpunkt
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Does a loanword mean it should be given back at a certain point?

I would give this one back if I were you. Isn't there an English equivalent for it? Something with gravity or so?
I've listenened to the pronunciation and it is nowhere near it.
Shjwayr-poonkt would come much closer.

And when you look at the way it is used I think you wouldn't miss it.:

Context:"In the only arty shot, the Dalai Lama, seen in silhouette, sits at the schwerpunkt of a Mondrian-like composition." frown

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#183713 - 03/19/09 03:11 PM Re: schwerpunkt [Re: BranShea]
twosleepy Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 876
Loc: western NY
I thought it had been returned long ago, since I've never ever heard or seen it before! :0)

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#183717 - 03/19/09 03:35 PM Re: schwerpunkt [Re: twosleepy]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
smile lots of little schwerpunkts

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#183755 - 03/21/09 03:33 AM Re: schwerpunkt [Re: BranShea]
Zed Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
schwerpunk

\!/
cool

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#183756 - 03/21/09 03:37 AM Re: schwerpunkt [Re: BranShea]
latishya Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/24/07
Posts: 390
Loc: कहीं &...
Originally Posted By: BranShea

I've listenened to the pronunciation and it is nowhere near it.
Shjwayr-poonkt would come much closer.


Closer to what? If it is a loanword do the English speakers have to pronounce it the German way?

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#183759 - 03/21/09 05:16 AM Re: schwerpunkt [Re: latishya]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
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I know it's an overcharged comparison, but when you borrow a shirt from someone you don't use it to mopp the floor with. Maybe it does not matter.
---Suggested by Latishya:
Quote:
It can be applied to any loanword used in any language - should the speakers of the language that borrowed the word try to mimic the pronunciation it had in the original?
Could be worth a discussion.

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#183768 - 03/21/09 09:40 AM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: BranShea]
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
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Does a loanword mean it should be given back at a certain point?

You'll have to ask the Germans who coined the word Lehnwort, and the English person who calqued (loan translation, Lehnübersetzung) it as loanword. It's funny that the other kind of word, Erbwort 'inheritance word', was not calqued. What's even funnier is that German Lehn (Latin feudum, feodum, beneficium) doesn't really mean 'loan', it's 'fief'. A Lehnsmann is a vassal.
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#183774 - 03/21/09 10:49 AM Re: schwerpunkt [Re: BranShea]
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
Isn't the glyph ∴ a therefore sign? That is the plainer cousin of the asterism (link).

[Addendum: Fixed the glyph. Whatever happened to the ability to use Unicode on this site?]


Edited by zmjezhd (03/21/09 10:51 AM)
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

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#183775 - 03/21/09 12:38 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
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Aha!...Aha! That is interesting. Leenwoord, erfwoord, leenheer, leenman, all familiar words from national history.
Is there a specific difference between a Lehnwort and an Erbwort?
Or does it mix and mingle a bit? To my ears the word 'fief ' is always such a funny word.
( the child with the missing front theeth trying to say 'thief ' ? )

Oh, but how about the domestication of the pronunciation of a loanword? (in general and in particular?)
(reminds me of the man who was trying to find the meaning of a Germany originated
word some time ago, but he did not remeber the pronunciation well and the word remained mystery)
looks like a little pyramid to me

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#183777 - 03/21/09 01:18 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: BranShea]
tsuwm Offline
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Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10524
Loc: this too shall pass
>Whatever happened to the ability to use Unicode on this site?

it seems to have (unhappily) got lost in one of the updates. someone should mention that in Anu's update thread!!

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#183786 - 03/21/09 02:57 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: BranShea]
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
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Loc: R'lyeh
Is there a specific difference between a Lehnwort and an Erbwort?

Yes. Erbwörter are the ones English got from Old (via Middle) English. Lehnwörter are the ones English got from French, Dutch, Yiddish, Greek, Latin, etc.
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#183787 - 03/21/09 02:58 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: tsuwm]
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
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someone should mention that in Anu's update thread!!

thanks for that ron o. I see you did it. (I, myself, didn't think that Anu read any threads on this site.)
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#183790 - 03/21/09 03:25 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: zmjezhd]
tsuwm Offline
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Registered: 04/03/00
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>(I, myself, didn't think that Anu read any threads on this site.)

{just the one, I surmise.}

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#183842 - 03/23/09 05:47 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: tsuwm]
LukeJavan8 Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
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Loc: Land of the Flat Water


Anu read one of mine and wrote me about it in a PM.
And he quoted it and another in another weekly newsletter.
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----please, draw me a sheep----

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#183852 - 03/24/09 04:01 AM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
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Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
zmjezhd: Thank you Jim, Erbworter only from the ancient past of the language itself, which I may suppose counts for many separate languages. I know we also have the understanding erfwoord. But as many of those seperate languages have more or less a shared past, can I suppose the line between isn't that clear?

tsuwm: If Anu does not read threads someone in his surrounding does, proved by occasional pickings from the board.

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#183860 - 03/24/09 10:35 AM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: BranShea]
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10524
Loc: this too shall pass
Originally Posted By: BranShea
If Anu does not read threads someone in his surrounding does, proved by occasional pickings from the board.


I'm only going by 'wordsmith' posts, as I generally don't see the emails.
-joe (did anyone here get contest recognition?) friday

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#183866 - 03/24/09 04:13 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: tsuwm]
olly Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 956
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
My Two entries paled in comparison to some of the options. Slightly off target they were.

mathematicaster = not a good counter
lepidopterology = little flutterby

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#183874 - 03/24/09 05:55 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: olly]
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Did anyone besides Olly take part?
(I was lost in scrabbling ) smile Why Olly, the first one wasn't that bad.

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#183879 - 03/24/09 06:41 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: BranShea]
tsuwm Offline
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Registered: 04/03/00
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Loc: this too shall pass
mathematicaster = adder who can't sum

(my others were even worse)

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#183904 - 03/25/09 03:19 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: tsuwm]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
I wish I 'd understand this best one. smile

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#183920 - 03/25/09 07:45 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: tsuwm]
PastorVon Offline
member

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 107
Loc: USA, North Carolina
Originally Posted By: tsuwm
mathematicaster = adder who can't sum

(my others were even worse)



Might it be an adder that cannot fish; or an adder that will not strike? But, then you have another portmanteau -- is that right? Can a portmanteau be a word with two utterly different meanings?


Edited by PastorVon (03/25/09 07:46 PM)
Edit Reason: word left out

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#183924 - 03/25/09 10:47 PM Re: centre of gravitas [Re: PastorVon]
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10524
Loc: this too shall pass
>Might it be an adder that cannot fish; or an adder that will not strike?

but those wouldn't qualify, now would they. (15-letter def'ns for 15-letter words)

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