Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#182649 02/16/09 10:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1
B
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
B
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1
"All that glisters is not gold" is logically incorrect.

Shakespeare should have written "Some that glisters is not gold" or "Not all that glisters is gold"

BrynJones #182652 02/16/09 12:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
It's called poetic license.

PS, I love it. Someone criticizing Shakespeare for his use of language.

Faldage #182654 02/16/09 01:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
never heard glisters. always thought it was glistens or glitters.


welcome, Bryn!


formerly known as etaoin...
BrynJones #182657 02/16/09 04:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
Originally Posted By: BrynJones
"All that glisters is not gold" is logically incorrect.

Shakespeare should have written "Some that glisters is not gold" or "Not all that glisters is gold"

Bryn is quoting Anu's WAD entry, which uses "glister", and a quick google turns it up as Shakespeare's own. I've never heard it used, even in quoting the Bard, so it must have been changed over the years, for whatever reason. It is, in fact, a blood relative of "glisten". Which makes me curious to know if it is pronounced glis ser or glis ter. I can see (hear?) either one, but am drawn to the former. A little digging revealed "ofter" is a word, but couldn't find a pronunciation. I can't really see that as of fer, but maybe it is. My IP (inner prescriptivist) detests the sound of of ten, ever directing the tongue to of fen, rhymed with "soften". Wow, I got rambling... Can you tell I'm off work today? I'm actually off all week, so y'all's in trouble... Thanks for the catalyst to interesting musings, Bryn, and welcome! :0)

BrynJones #182658 02/16/09 05:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
K
stranger
Offline
stranger
K
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
Did anybody else notice that the Latin word "potis" (having the power) is uncannily reminiscent of the acronym "POTUS" (President of the United States)?

Karen S. #182661 02/16/09 06:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
M
addict
Offline
addict
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
It's too bad they've stopped teachin Latin and formal logic (and statistics) as part of the basic knowledge base. You can't even begin to have a decent argument with many people because they haven't been taught to "correctly" interpret exists, somes, alls, nots, not alls, etc.

potis is "capable" as in "having the power/ability to do" but not "having the POWER" as in holding the reins. Potus itself is a drink or a bout of drinking - how about that?

Myridon #182663 02/16/09 07:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2
. ,
Originally Posted By: Myridon
It's too bad they've stopped teachin Latin and formal logic (and statistics) as part of the basic knowledge base. You can't even begin to have a decent argument with many people because they haven't been taught to "correctly" interpret exists, somes, alls, nots, not alls, etc.

potis is "capable" as in "having the power/ability to do" but not "having the POWER" as in holding the reins. Potus itself is a drink or a bout of drinking - how about that?


Right, on Myr. Too bad decent education has departed. Potis is able or capable. As for Logic
does anyone even remember the Ven circles? (Even I don't remember the spelling.)


----please, draw me a sheep----
LukeJavan8 #182665 02/16/09 07:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390
L
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
L
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390
Originally Posted By: LukeJavan8


Right, on Myr. Too bad decent education has departed.


The barbarians are at the gate, education's gone to hell and we're breeding a bunch of barely-literate morons - hasn't this been the standard refrain since Virgil's day? "Say not thou, 'What is the cause that the former days were better than these?' For thou dost not inquire wisely concerning this."

Why should Latin be considered an indispensable part of English language education? A fixation with Latin was responsible for the stupid "split infinitive" nonsense, after all. Learning another language can help broaden appreciation for your own, but if teaching a conversationally dead language is that important, why not Sanskrit? Like Latin, it's still a national official language, but in a country with a population just a little bit bigger than the Vatican.

latishya #182672 02/16/09 08:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956
Led Zeppelin Use 'Gliiters' in Stairway to heaven. My year 9 English teacher highlighted 'Glisters' while studying the Merchant of Venice.

latishya #182675 02/16/09 10:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
M
addict
Offline
addict
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
Originally Posted By: latishya
Why should Latin be considered an indispensable part of English language education?

I probably mis-spoke myself a bit there... I was primarily thinking of what the required subjects were in Shakespeare's day that might have given a well-educated 10-year-old then certain advantages over "fully educated" modern adults in certain areas.
Quote:
A fixation with Latin was responsible for the stupid "split infinitive" nonsense, after all.

I believe "A fixation with something was responsible for the stupid "something else" nonsense" in a great many cases, ... perhaps we should give up on schooling altogether. (joking)

Myridon #182677 02/16/09 11:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
There seems to be an underlying assumption going on here that colloquial language usage must adhere to rules of logic. This is just nonsense.

Myridon #182680 02/17/09 04:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
K
stranger
Offline
stranger
K
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2
RE: potis vs POTUS - I was simply trying to be funny. I don't think it deserved an insult to my intelligence. Thanks for making my time on this bulletin board unpleasant.

Karen S. #182681 02/17/09 04:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
>unpleasant

someone's got to do it.

-ron o.

tsuwm #182686 02/17/09 05:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2

I enjoyed your humor, Karen.
Welcome to the forums. Keep posting.


----please, draw me a sheep----
Karen S. #182694 02/17/09 07:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Originally Posted By: Karen S.
RE: potis vs POTUS - I was simply trying to be funny. I don't think it deserved an insult to my intelligence. Thanks for making my time on this bulletin board unpleasant.


I laughed, and wasn't really sure what everyone else was going on about!

but that's the way of it around here, sometimes!

:¬ )


formerly known as etaoin...
Karen S. #182708 02/18/09 03:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Originally Posted By: Karen S.
Thanks for making my time on this bulletin board unpleasant.
Keep smiling Karen S. I assume it's their job to welcome you this way . Don' t know if there's any gold involved. My guess, it's is just charity.
Your reply was quite to the point. :~)

BranShea #182719 02/19/09 03:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
I sent her a PM; hope she comes back.

Jackie #182720 02/19/09 11:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
So I don't get it. What did we do to insult her intelligence?

Faldage #182722 02/19/09 03:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
perhaps not her intelligence, per se, but I certainly felt *her education was alluded to in the three posts right after hers.

Karen S. #182724 02/19/09 03:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107
P
member
Offline
member
P
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 107
Karen, you've got to be a little bit thick-skinned if you are going to participate on these AWAD forums. I'm late into this dicussion; but I don't see this as an example of an insult. I see it as a part of the give-and-=take of a typical forum exchange. However, to come to your aid, I disagree with the precisionists concerning the meaning of POTIS. Capability in my neck of the woods implies the POWER to use that ability. [a parallel might be seen in the meaning of the Greek EXOUSIA -- see John 1:12] IMO, your point is well-taken. It is interesting that POTIS is so close to POTUS.

BrynJones #182727 02/19/09 06:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
Fal: I don't think she was referring to you. She replied to Myr.

Here is what I emailed to her:

I think you misread to whom Myridon was referring, because he was actually commenting, in the first part, on BrynJones's post, who used the "some", "not all" etc. It was not directed at you.

The second part, referring to the meaning of "potus", was directed at you, and he did get that you were joking, because he joked back with a reference to GWB's infamous drinking.


Maybe I got it wrong, but that's how I see/saw it. Feel free to rip it up.... I can take it... ;0)

twosleepy #182737 02/19/09 10:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2

Noticing, of course, that she has not responded to any comment.
We need not be arrogant, none of us.


----please, draw me a sheep----
LukeJavan8 #182761 02/20/09 01:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
It certainly is not the first time someone potentionally interesting gets rebuffed at the first posts. My American nephew got such a negative welcome here, that he soon dropped his efforts. A pity. It was chance missed to share something with a distant (in distance) relative.

BranShea #182767 02/20/09 04:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2

It certainly is a pity: a person may give some very enlightening
insight, but won't come back because of the arrogant comment
someone made to drive them away. There are other sites similar
to this one, and I hope they find better treatment there, and
enjoy their stay. This is not the private site of any of us, and
we need not rebuff anyone. There are lots of dead threads with
persons who contributed and who are no longer contributing.
And this could be a major reason why.


----please, draw me a sheep----
LukeJavan8 #182768 02/20/09 04:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
well, people move on, different circumstances mean different actions, and life goes on. some of us are less active than in years past, because our lives have changed.


formerly known as etaoin...
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
It does. So welcome to all newcomers . (A good hippopotamus skin recommended.)

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2

Yes, a good hippotamus skin is a must. And people move on.
But I stick to my original concept: we do not have the right
to be arrogant and drive others away. HOW WE SAY THINGS,
Matters as much as WHAT WE SAY.

On another site, the word for the day is PERNICIOUS
and the definition from Wiki is "causing much harm in a subtle way." Let's not let that happen.

Last edited by LukeJavan8; 02/20/09 05:52 PM.

----please, draw me a sheep----
LukeJavan8 #182780 02/20/09 08:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
M
addict
Offline
addict
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
I think my skin has been breached. Evidentally I'm pernicious, arrogant, crude, negative and insulting. Perhaps my wounds will heal someday. Goodbye all.

Myridon #182785 02/20/09 09:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Originally Posted By: Myridon
I think my skin has been breached. Evidentally I'm pernicious, arrogant, crude, negative and insulting. Perhaps my wounds will heal someday. Goodbye all.


who said that about you? and where?


formerly known as etaoin...
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
you really have to read between the lines in this thread.
-joe (or note who's replying to whom) friday

tsuwm #182789 02/20/09 10:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
ah, sorry, got it.

I'm pretty naïve when it comes to all this insulting stuff....


formerly known as etaoin...
tsuwm #182790 02/20/09 10:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
Sometimes folks don't pay attention to to whom they are replying. They just click "reply" on the bottommost box.

-two [waving the caution flag] sleepy

twosleepy #182792 02/20/09 11:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Originally Posted By: twosleepy
Sometimes folks don't pay attention to to whom they are replying. They just click "reply" on the bottommost box.

-two [waving the caution flag] sleepy


heh

that would often be me...


formerly known as etaoin...
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Good gracious--most of this thread seems to me like it's one misunderstanding after another. Myr, I've never known you to be any of those things you said you evidently were--ever. As to your first post in this thread, I took it that you were making a comment on education in general, not about Karen's in particular--but evidently she took it as a personal reference. Then people who don't know tsuwm may have taken his "someone's got to do it" as being serious...and so on down the line.

Um...maybe we can all take a deep breath, and remember that tone of voice, facial expressions, and body language are very difficult to assess on a computer screen. If I may make a recommendation, I think that if we feel upset by someone's post, it's a good idea to check with them to see if they really meant what you thought they did. I for one do quite well at making a fool of myself in other ways, without responding to somebody's insult they never meant!

Jackie #182829 02/22/09 03:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
BTW, where is the Tasmanian Pook gone? Last seen in the AWAD-mail issue 346 of Febr. 15. Kidnapped by Anu?

BranShea #182893 02/24/09 05:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,916
Likes: 2

Perhaps out enjoying the last 6-8 weeks of nice summer weather?
Kia ora!

Last edited by LukeJavan8; 02/24/09 05:52 PM.

----please, draw me a sheep----
latishya #183364 03/08/09 01:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
why not Sanskrit?

1+

vidyA dadAti vinayam vinayAtyAti pAtratAm
pAtratvAddhanamApnoti dhanAddharmam tataH sukham
(Hitopadesha)


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,283
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 444 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,510
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5