#180674 - 12/04/08 08:16 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: BranShea]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3269
Loc: R'lyeh
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It's called a double genitive ( link). Michael Quinion opines ( link) about it. The MWDEU is also a good reference ( link).
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#180676 - 12/04/08 08:35 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: zmjezhd]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7184
Loc: Vermont
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I would just say "a friend of my sister." no possessive.
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#180685 - 12/04/08 03:53 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: BranShea]
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addict
Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 557
Loc: Dallas, TX
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... and "my sister's friend".
It works well for "friend" (possibly due to the assumption the friend relationship is reciprocal?). but "A picture of my sister" might depict my sister and belong to me or anyone, while "a picture of my sister's" would show anything and belong to her.
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#180686 - 12/04/08 05:48 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: Myridon]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5249
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
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Ha, yes, I see. I see . There is a difference in meaning when you consider the picture sentence. But what is odd is the 's'. A picture of my sister's. The s looks like a leftover from his. "My sister his picture". But then my sister is a her. Then I do understand you can't write or say " my sister'r picture". You could say though: "my brother's picture = " my brother his picture", hey ho ! Sinking deeper and deeper in the mud. 
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#180688 - 12/04/08 08:11 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: BranShea]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13654
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A picture of my sister's. The s looks like a leftover from his.
"My sister his picture". But then my sister is a her. Then I do understand you can't write or say " my sister'r picture".
You could say though: "my brother's picture = " my brother his picture"
This is a commonly held misunderstanding of the origin of the 's possesive marker in English. It really comes from one of the most common OE inflexional endings for the genitive singular.
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#180723 - 12/06/08 06:28 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: The Pook]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5288
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
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This reminds me of the discussion of earlier this year concerning where do Churches come up with things like: " at
St. Bernard's". St. Bernard is dead, cannot be a possessive.
Yet even at the Vatican it is St. Peter's Basilica, in London it is St. Paul's. Someone mentioned the 'genitive' case above: which
as I understand it, indicates 'possession', yet a dead saint cannot possess a Church, etc.etc.etc. I like Pook's comment: don't expect consistence in the English language.
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#180748 - 12/09/08 07:42 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: Faldage]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7184
Loc: Vermont
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So, the parking lot is blocking access to the loading area? Why is the truck taking the blame?  Uh-huh. What's the word for someone who exhibits willful misunderstanding? Faldage? /snicker
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#180760 - 12/09/08 12:12 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: Faldage]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5288
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
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I like that 'truck's owner' genitive. Good one.
And: would it be "my friend and me went to the store".
Me went to the store????
We have definitely been thru this before.
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#180761 - 12/09/08 12:12 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: LukeJavan8]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5288
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
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You guys must do this all day long to become "carpal tunnel".
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#180773 - 12/09/08 02:27 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: LukeJavan8]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7184
Loc: Vermont
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You guys must do this all day long to become "carpal tunnel". heh I've been here 5 and a half years, so... it adds up. :¬ )
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#180779 - 12/09/08 07:16 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: Buffalo Shrdlu]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13654
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So, the parking lot is blocking access to the loading area? Why is the truck taking the blame? Uh-huh. What's the word for someone who exhibits willful misunderstanding? Faldage? /snicker Uh-huh. So lessee, how could I have worded it so y'all couldn't possibly distort the meaning. The original was: "There is a red Ford pickup truck in the parking lot blocking access to the loading area."
How about : "There is a red Ford pickup truck blocking access to the loading area in the parking lot." No, that makes it sound like the loading area is in the parking lot. How about: "In the parking lot there is a red Ford pickup truck blocking access to the loading area." Well, that's a little awkward, isn't it. How about: "There is a red Ford pickup truck in the parking lot blocking access to the loading area." Yeah, that's it. Wait a minute, that's the original. Hmm. And who's blaming anyone, or thing?
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#180796 - 12/09/08 10:29 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: Faldage]
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enthusiast
Registered: 11/24/07
Posts: 390
Loc: कहीं &...
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I thought of another example of the genitive not indicating possession:
"There is a red Ford pickup truck in the parking lot blocking access to the loading area. Will the truck's owner please report to customer service." This reminded me of a recent post at LanguageLog Believed to be an F-18
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#180808 - 12/10/08 11:28 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: Faldage]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5288
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
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As long as it is not my red truck blocking anything, I'm Ok with it.
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#180809 - 12/10/08 11:30 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: LukeJavan8]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5288
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
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Thanks you guys for your responses on Carpal Tunnel.
I go to this sight before opening any of my daily emails. I see what you mean by addictive. By the way, I hear there is a
Computerusers Anonymous, similar to AA.
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#180818 - 12/10/08 03:04 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: Faldage]
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enthusiast
Registered: 11/24/07
Posts: 390
Loc: कहीं &...
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Another case where it seems to me to be a lot of effort involved in misunderstanding it. When I read that piece I thought the misunderstanding was deliberate and for humorous effect rather than nitpicking.
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#180819 - 12/10/08 04:21 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: latishya]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5288
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
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I think I may be missing something Latishya, I just read the
piece you referred to re; the Fl8. And now they have found another victim. But referring the reporting by the media. I have found that they hardly ever use correct grammar. But it is mostly hype anyway, just to sell their story for more advertising money, witnessed by some phrase like "first exclusively reported here on this station". So I am not surprised by anything the media say.
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#181525 - 01/07/09 07:53 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: Faldage]
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enthusiast
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 293
Loc: Orlando
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Another case where it seems to me to be a lot of effort involved in misunderstanding it. Working closely with US Air Force pilots, they often "become one with the aircraft" and feel the ship is just an extension of their human body!!
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#181533 - 01/07/09 12:24 PM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: ParkinT]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5288
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
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I believe it, emotional attachment.
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#204467 - 02/01/12 10:39 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: ]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5288
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
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Hi -back at you. Welcome.
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#204490 - 02/04/12 07:34 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: LukeJavan8]
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old hand
Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 1030
Loc: Lancaster, UK
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Good to have you here, zeun. We're a mad bunch, but mostly harmless!
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#204494 - 02/04/12 11:41 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: Rhubarb Commando]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 5288
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
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Be careful with that statement RC.
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#204505 - 02/05/12 10:01 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: LukeJavan8]
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old hand
Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 1030
Loc: Lancaster, UK
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Careful? Me? C'mon, now - I have a reputation to maintain.
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#204512 - 02/06/12 01:56 AM
Re: at my sister's, of my sister's.
[Re: BranShea]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5249
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
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I dug up the initial post Here's a little thing I longtime wanted to ask. You say:
I will be at my sister's.
She's a friend of my sister's.
In the first sentence this seems clearly to mean: "At my sister's " house or place.
The second form always struck me as odd. "a friend of my sister's" ... what?
Maybe I am making mistakes here, but I just would like to know the details about this. (thanks) I reread the Michael Quinion article from Jim's link and keep on using the double genitive anyway as it's stuck in my head since schooldays. > link
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Then it wás my old school English that put it in my head like that. It is simply oldfashioned, allright. A friend of my sister, just like that from now on.
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