|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876 |
Spanish is also useless in this regard. "No obstante" is the phrase, which is kind of "without obstruction", or "sin embargo", literally "without seizure".
If you break it down into an example, it makes it a tiny bit clearer:
"The children saw the bull in the field, but went in nonetheless"
The children saw the bull (danger) in the field, but went in not [none][the] less eager/brave/willing (or whatever).
Since "nonetheless" is incomplete (less what?), there is an inference needing to be made (other than that they are stupid...) :0)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Nice lesson.
"I cannot accept your offer, but I thank you none the less,"
so means: I cannot not accept your offer, but I thank you not less for it?"
Where we would sooner say : "thanks anyway." (?)
In English nonetheless is less a mess then than in Dutch and German. (can't do the equal thing with it)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
"I cannot accept your offer, but I thank you none the less," so means: I cannot not accept your offer, but I thank you not less for it?" and, perhaps, I think nothing less of you for making it. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876 |
No, I think it means "I am none the less grateful", ("not less grateful") even though I didn't accept the offer. At least, that's how I see it! :0)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
"I cannot accept your offer, but I thank you none the less," so means: I cannot not accept your offer, but I thank you not less for it?" on first reading, I missed that second 'not' -- if you meant to put it, that's not correct; if you didn't mean to put it, that's still not correct. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956 |
on first reading, I missed that second 'not' -- if you meant to put it, that's not correct; if you didn't mean to put it, that's still not correct.
I looked to the third 'not' and was stymied because I hadn't seen the second either.
Nevertheless, notwithstanding, still, however, yet, are some alternate adverbs that could make the statement nonetheless emphatic.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
on first reading, I missed that second 'not' -- if you meant to put it, that's not correct; if you didn't mean to put it, that's still not correct.
I looked to the third 'not' and was stymied because I hadn't seen the second either.
Nevertheless, notwithstanding, still, however, yet, are some alternate adverbs that could make the statement nonetheless emphatic. In the the sentence "I cannot accept your offer, but I thank you none the less," it simply means I thank you despite the fact that I don't want what you're offering. I thank you anyway. I thank you even though I don't need to thank you. It's just an idiom. Idioms don't need to analysed in detail to try to make sense of them. They don't make sense. That's what makes them idiomatic. Equivocal language. When olly uses nonetheless in "adverbs that could make the statement nonetheless emphatic," he should have used "none the less" since that's not what 'nonetheless' means. He meant not less than using 'nonetheless.' But 'nonetheless' as one word does not mean not less than. Its meaning transcends its etymology. It means 'anyway.'
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 956 |
In the the sentence "I cannot accept your offer, but I thank you none the less," it simply means I thank you despite the fact that I don't want what you're offering. I thank you anyway. I thank you even though I don't need to thank you. It's just an idiom. Idioms don't need to analysed in detail to try to make sense of them. They don't make sense. That's what makes them idiomatic. Yes, However, if you look at Bransheas last post, tsuwm was quoting the perhaps unintentional addition of an extra word (not). kind of like in the beginning of your post.
Equivocal language. When olly uses nonetheless in "adverbs that could make the statement nonetheless emphatic," he should have used "none the less" since that's not what 'nonetheless' means. He meant not less than using 'nonetheless.' But 'nonetheless' as one word does not mean not less than. Its meaning transcends its etymology. It means 'anyway.'
Yeah, that was partly my point. To expose the etymology. You just explained it better.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154 |
So Janis, Don't know if this is helping but we're having fun .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
I wonder who started this business about an extra (k)not.  I mean  The not was put there on purpose. What would: "I cannot accept your offer, but I thank you less for it ", look like? Not only very incorrect but also rude. Can one not say : I thank you not less for this? ( not even poetically somehow ?) Hmm? Shakespeare or such?
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,328
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
763
guests, and
0
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
