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Is there rhyme or reason to the way Americans use 'this' and 'next' when referring to days of the week?
Today is Monday (May 5).
What date is this Wednesday?
And what date is next Wednesday?
Steffani
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>Is there rhyme or reason to the way Americans use 'this' and 'next'
in my experience, no.
this is not to say that there *shouldn't be, rhyme or reason.
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I'd say, today being Monday, May 5, that this Wednesday is May 7 and next Wednesday is probably May 14. I might also refer to May 7 as "this coming Wednesday." If today were Thursday, May 8, I'd probably say that next Wednesday was May 14, but if talking about May 7, I'd probably say "this past Wednesday" if there weren't something else that unequivocally identified the day as May 7. Maybe on Saturday, May 3 or even Sunday, May 4 I might say that next Wednesday and this Wednesday were the same date, i.e., May 7. These distinctions are mine and I would not necessarily expect other USns to have the same criteria. If I thought there was any possibility of confusion in the mind of my audience I'd specify the date. If some other USn spoke of next Wednesday or this Wednesday I'd confirm the date.
Is that confusing enough?
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>Is there rhyme or reason to the way Americans use 'this' and 'next'
in my experience, no.
this is not to say that there *shouldn't be, rhyme or reason. Not for Australians either. In fact I and the Pookwife disagree over the use and meaning of the words "next" and "this" in this context. If it were Monday and I said "next Friday" I would mean the same thing as if I said "this Friday" - that is, the NEXT Friday that comes, or this coming Friday, same thing. But if she said "next Friday" she would always mean Friday next week.
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at least each of you can explain yourself in a consistent manner, whereas... 
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But if she said "next Friday" she would always mean Friday next week. I would tend to agree with the Pookwife. Though I would also use Friday week to reference the following Friday after the next Friday which is ... you get the picture!
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Fald lays out pretty well what I say.
formerly known as etaoin...
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I agree with the Pookwife!
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Well I still think that to be totally unambiguous and avoid misunderstandings it is necessary to say Friday next week if you mean that rather than meaning this Friday, which is what 'next Friday' is logically if it's the next Friday to arrive. If you say next Friday on Wednesday someone will always take it to mean the Friday in two days' time.
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Gotta chuckle about this one! I always have arguments with my 15 year-old about this. For me, it's simple: If I say "this" it means in the current week; if I say "next", it means in the following week. I see the use of "next" here as distinct from "the next", which is a different beast. Since this is by no means standard, I sometimes clarify with "this coming", especially when, say, it's Monday, and I'm talking about Sunday. But I've never totally missed something from confusion about it, but probably because people use dates. Which, by the way, the entire world does sensibly, EXCEPT the US, with our M/D/Y nonsense instead of the logical D/M/Y. :0)
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To my mind if you say "next week" then that refers to the very next week that comes along after this week. You wouldn't mean the first week in the next month (unless it WAS also the first week in the next month). So if you say "next X-day" the next should refer not to the week but to the very next day of that name that comes along. Where is the word or concept "week" in the phrase "next Tuesday"? The next applies to the day, not the week. It means next Tuesday, not next week on Tuesday. No matter what you say I will continue to stubbornly insist on using the most logical meaning.  (and yes I meant to split that infinitive)
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But I've never totally missed something from confusion about it, but probably because people use dates. Which, by the way, the entire world does sensibly, EXCEPT the US, with our M/D/Y nonsense instead of the logical D/M/Y. :0) Not to go off on a tangent or anything, but, D/M/Y might be more logical but it's totally backwards. The only sensible way of doing it is Y/M/D. That way it sorts your dates nicely in alphnumeric order. Speaking of lilliputian, the computer terms for these date ordering schemes are: little-endian for the European dd/mm/yyyy, big-endian for the Asian yyyy/mm/dd, and middle-endian for the USn mm/dd/yyyy. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big-endian[/url]YCLIU[/url]
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I completely agree with Faldage.
We use the British system of D.M.Y , which IS more logical than the US system of M.D.Y, but it does make MOST sense to record it as YEAR.MM.DD, especially when naming computer files.
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Well I still think that to be totally unambiguous and avoid misunderstandings man, you want a lot from a language...
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Y/M/D
LOL. These are all conventions. And some are better for some things than others. But you might as well argue that a 64-bit, unsigned integer representing the milliseconds from some arbitrarily chosen date, say, January 1, 1970, is the best ... Why not champion a base-60 calendar system?
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Y/M/D
LOL. These are all conventions. And some are better for some things than others. But you might as well argue that a 64-bit, unsigned integer representing the milliseconds from some arbitrarily chosen date, say, January 1, 1970, is the best ... Why not champion a base-60 calendar system?  ...because we're not talking about 64bit whatzits or base 60 calendars, we're talking about the one we're stuck with, and the most logical way to refer to a date from it.
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and the most logical way to refer to a date from it.Oh, what's my favorite? Why didn't you say? The best way is ISO 8601 which Faldo referred to: YYYY-MM-DD link. (It's an international standard. Can't get much better than that.)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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> To my mind if you say "next week" then that refers to the very next week that comes along after this week. You wouldn't mean the first week in the next month (unless it WAS also the first week in the next month). So if you say "next X-day" the next should refer not to the week but to the very next day of that name that comes along. (?)
We keep this one clear by distinguishing for instance: "coming Saturday " from " next Saturday " ( e.i. next week's Saturday).
"aanstaande zaterdag" versus "volgende zaterdag".
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Where is the word or concept "week" in the phrase "next Tuesday"? The next applies to the day, not the week. It means next Tuesday, not next week on Tuesday. Not this Tuesday (the Tuesday in this week), but next Tuesday. Your way "this Tuesday" and "next Tuesday" mean the same thing - if and only if it's not after Tuesday - no one has brought up the question: "What does "last Tuesday" mean?" My way is, no matter if it's Monday or Wednesday, last Tuesday is still in last week, this Tuesday is still this week, and next Tuesday is in next week. Now if I could just deal with moving appointments up and back, and know which choice is "the latter" without having to think in my head "former/latter, former/latter, former/latter..."
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>Is there rhyme or reason to the way Americans we use 'this' and 'next' in English.
in my experience, no.
QED
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and the most logical way to refer to a date from it.Oh, what's my favorite? Why didn't you say? The best way is ISO 8601 which Faldo referred to: YYYY-MM-DD link. (It's an international standard. Can't get much better than that.) I agree. My order of preference is: 1. what you call ISO 8601 2. the British/Australian method of day month year 3. the US system of month day year But i also believe that my preference is based on logic.
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No matter what you say I will continue to stubbornly insist Oh! My soulmate! ;-)
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Not this Tuesday (the Tuesday in this week), but next Tuesday. Your way "this Tuesday" and "next Tuesday" mean the same thing - if and only if it's not after Tuesday - Yeah, so? What's wrong with synonymous phrases?  no one has brought up the question: "What does "last Tuesday" mean?" It means the last Tuesday that happened, whether or not it is in the same week as the day you are talking. The only unambiguous way of saying it is "Tuesday last week" if that's what you mean. If it's Monday, then "last Tuesday" has to refer to last week. Otherwise, in order not to be misunderstood, I would say "Tuesday last week." My way is, no matter if it's Monday or Wednesday, last Tuesday is still in last week, this Tuesday is still this week, and next Tuesday is in next week. I suppose in practice that is not so confusing since if it were past you would be using a past tense verb with it - it was this Tuesday. But that sounds really strange to me, and could still be confused with a past perfect - you might be saying that something WAS scheduled for the Tuesday that is coming up but now isn't or you aren't sure. John: "When was that meeting we were going to have?" Mary: "It was this Tuesday" Is his "was" a past perfect/imperfect? Is she using a past perfect and he has missed it? Guess it depends what day of the week it is. My way, next Tuesday always means next Tuesday regardless of the week it is in. And it means the same as "this Tuesday," which never means "last Tuesday."
Last edited by The Pook; 05/07/08 02:08 AM.
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No matter what you say I will continue to stubbornly insist Oh! My soulmate! ;-) Sorry Jackie, that position's been filled already by the Pookwife!
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No matter what you say I will continue to stubbornly insist on using the most logical meaning.
Logic has little, if not anything, to do with language. I, on the other hand, see the logic of the other side: this is a deictic pronoun referring to that which is close to the speaker, as opposed to that by the hearer and yon by a third person who is neither ego or tu. If it's humpday, and somebody (not Mr ThePook nor zmjezhd) says this Tuesday, it makes sense that s/he is referring to the day before, not that one six days out (or seven as the Romans counted, they being a logical people, too). I don't see what the fuss is, as long as the person doing the reckoning does so consistently. That way I don't get into squabbles over whether soda is pop or coke.
The funny thing is that next is an archaic superlative form of nigh, so when somebody says next Tuesday, they literally and etymologically mean the closest Tuesday to the day they are speaking of.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Logic has little, if not anything, to do with language. Absolutely! I don't get into squabbles over whether soda is pop or coke. ...actually soda is a caustic byproduct of smelting isn't it? And here, "pop" is lemonade.  The funny thing is that next is an archaic superlative form of nigh, so when somebody says next Tuesday, they literally and etymologically mean the closest Tuesday to the day they are speaking of. Aha! So etymology is on my side too!
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And here, "pop" is lemonade.
Erm, no: actually pop here means squash.
So etymology is on my side too!
Nu. Nu? So when Mr ThePook and Mrs ThePookWife says next Tuesday on Wednesday, they mean yestern? Nudge.
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and here (in the city) a "pop" is a loose girl who spends time in many different locations during times of "rest"...
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The word nigh used temporally always refers to the future. Therefore is next is "an archaic superlative" of nigh, it refers to the nearest future event. So, no, I would not mean yestern. The Pookwife, on the other hand, agrees with my antagonists in this debate. But I forgive her. What does Nu mean? Did you mean nuh? huh? 
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What does Nu mean?
Nu is Yiddish for נו. It's cognate with German nun and English now. It means something like well now.
Mrs ThePookWife is one smart cookie.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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...actually soda is a caustic byproduct of smelting isn't it?
Don't they use coke in the smelting process, too?
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...actually soda is a caustic byproduct of smelting isn't it?
Don't they use coke in the smelting process, too? heh heh, yup I b'lieve so
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here, "pop" is lemonade. Even brand-name soft drinks such as Coca-cola? It's all lemonade?
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yup pretty much.
Lemonade is anything fizzy with sugar in it. It's not usually used to describe the stuff that Charlie Brown and Lucy make and sell for 5 cents a cup - that's Lemon juice. So it's a generic term, but Lemonade also refers specifically to the product called Lemonade - that is, soda or pop that is just sugar and water without the food colouring and flavours. So Lemonade is lemonade, but so is Coke, Lime, 7-up, etc. Soda is only used of soda water - carbonated water with no sugar in it.
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What is it?
Soda's (coke, pepsi, fanta, 7up, etc) are all so generic that they are POP (south east US) or lemonade?
I wonder if it is related to my in laws(RIP) who would use the generic soda (to my kids "do you want soda? we bought some for today.."
and you'd never know what you'd get.
Pineapple flavor. or 'champaign cola'* or grape...
they treated soda like a generic.. no reguard to flavor. (i used to drink cola's --but they are bad for your bones.. so now i only drink lemon/lime flavored soda.. (any brand will do..)
* do you guys have champaign cola? It looks like cola (brownish) but it taste like cherry bubble gum! is is this a NY speciality (like Malta?--(ok so malta can be found in most East coast cities.. and PR.. (anywhere else?))
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used for generic sweet, carbonated beverage (Coke, Pepsi, Sprite, etc.)
"pop" in the Great Plains (mid-west) of the US.
"soda" in New England, US.
formerly known as etaoin...
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Lemonade is anything fizzy with sugar in it. Wow, I never knew that! Kewl! Where I live, anything fizzy with sugar in it is Coke.
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(i used to drink cola's --but they are bad for your bones.. so now i only drink lemon/lime flavored soda.. (any brand will do..) I've got bad news for you, it's not the Cola that is bad for your bones, it's the carbonate. Calcium plus carbonate equals chalk!
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Lemonade is anything fizzy with sugar in it. Wow, I never knew that! Kewl! Where I live, anything fizzy with sugar in it is Coke. Coke is only coca-cola or cocaine here. Pop is your mother's father. And soda you use to clean drains (NaOH)
Last edited by The Pook; 05/08/08 03:34 PM.
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used for generic sweet, carbonated beverage (Coke, Pepsi, Sprite, etc.)
"pop" in the Great Plains (mid-west) of the US.
"soda" in New England, US. Dunno bout these days but back in 1970±1 year it was "tonic" (pronounced tawnik) in Boston.
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we've done this before..
there are tonic, and Frappe's, and Phospherouses, and then we go on to regional favorites, like Moxie... and manhattan special.. and.. Oh, what the hell. why not..
I have some manhattan special handy (it's sweetened, carbonated expresso--with more caffine per 8 ounce serving than Jolt. taste better too!
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we've done this before
Yeahbut™ mine was just an oblique ref to the fact that many different groups have different terms for many items ...
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Well, I've never seen or had a Frappe. Does it need to be capitalized? Does it come with a beating?
And what about phospherouses? Doesn't seem very drinkable.
Must be firy.
Last edited by BranShea; 05/09/08 08:11 PM.
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On my Oster blender (over 30 years old), the very highest of 14 speeds is called frappe so I always _assumed_ it meant super-whip and that a frappe must be a very foamy, whipped drink. Now I'm looking at multiple dictionaries and they all say it means "chilled, partially frozen" or "a drink over ice". If my warranty weren't long expired, I'd send it back. ;-)
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A frappe is what normal folks call a milk shake. It might be obsolete, but a milk shake in Boston used to be flavored milk shaken up; no ice cream. You want ice cream in it you ask for a frappe.
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Frappes don't usually have ice cream in them like in Boston. They are usually crushed ice and fruit whipped in a blender. And perhaps some yoghurt, but that would start to be more like a smoothie. Smoothies can be made with milk, skim milk, soy milk, etc, and may or may not involve ice cream but usually have ice and fruit blended together.
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