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Joined: Feb 2008
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
the ll. Many times it is taught as the same as a y in English, as in yellow: llama = yama. The ellya is actually more like lyama than yama - it's just the 'l' version of the enya (ñ). But that's too hard for many English speakers to say, so they simplify it to yama. In many countries, especially in SA, however, you will find a sound more like sh or dj, or some combination in between: llama = djama. Or 'zh' or 'dzh'. In Argentina they say it like that. And maybe Uruguay?
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876 |
The ellya is actually more like lyama than yama - it's just the 'l' version of the enya (ñ). But that's too hard for many English speakers to say, so they simplify it to yama. They do use that pronunciation in a few areas, but in the US, anyway, you would never hear someone put any hint of /l/ in a word with "ll", nor would you be able to find anyone teaching it that way, nor any teaching resources that even mention it. Or 'zh' or 'dzh'. In Argentina they say it like that. And maybe Uruguay? Most probably they do! Most of SA uses some variation along those lines. The straight ll=y is taught because it is "standard", and easiest to say, as it's a frequently used phoneme in English, whereas all our mentioned variations are less familiar, and therefore less comfortable. :0)
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
There is a phenomenon in Spanish called yeísmo (which contrasts with lleísmo). In the former, the phoneme /ʎ/, a palatal lateral approximant phoneme (similar to Italian <gl>, represented by the grapheme <ll>, is pronounced a a simple i griega <y> ( link). It is an important distinction between different regional varieties of Spanish. In Argentine (or Buenos Aires) Spanish, it is realized voiced post-alveolar fricative /ʒ/, though this is changing to a voiceless version /ʃ/. In other dialects it is voiced or voiceless affricates. In Catalan, it is mostly a /ʎ/.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Joined: Jan 2008
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member
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member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 132 |
The critical period hypothesis is a hotly debated topic in second language learning. My understanding is that whatever else we disagree about, it is generally agreed that 1) it is generally harder for adults to learn an L2 than children, especially syntax and phonology, 2) it is not impossible for adults to master an L2, and 3) there is no hard cut-off point at puberty.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154 |
I wonder if anyone has done any brain mapping of people speaking primary vs secondary languages. or of fluent vs non-fluent.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
brain mapping of people speaking primary vs secondary languages Wow, that would be cool!
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Joined: Mar 2008
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Mar 2008
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The acquisition of the first and later languages is highly complex. Some understanding of the brain mechanisms involved are seen in aphasics who have lost part of their faculties for language (from a stroke or other brain diseases). The pattern of recovery is also helpful and has been the subject of many published studies. For those interested, a short review is: A note on aphasia in bilingual patients: Pitres' and Ribot's laws. Eur Neurol 2005;54:127-131
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Wow, thanks, Dr. Pearce! I tried to find the article but could only find a brief abstract, which includes: Clinical studies have since shown that bilingual 'aphasics' do not necessarily manifest the same language disorders with the same degree of severity in both languages.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
J, I found it through Google[documents]: link but if you click the first (normal) Google result, when you get the abstract, you can click the 'full text' link.
Last edited by tsuwm; 03/31/08 08:52 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154 |
Welcome Pearce, Thank you, I wondered of someone had been researching this area but was too lazy to go searching.
(Ta to tswm too.)
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