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#172170 - 12/17/07 09:17 PM Re: sabrage uncorked [Re: Jackie]
wofahulicodoc Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 4897
Loc: Worcester, MA
Sprinkling sand on a still-wet document or signature

Ah, oui, you meant "sablage" rather than sabrage!

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#172171 - 12/17/07 10:02 PM Re: sabrage uncorked [Re: wofahulicodoc]
olly Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 956
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Yaaaayyyyy! What a surprise. Honestly, I was smiling all the way through Alexs first post. Congratulations Olly you have been selected to inherit Thirty Million Dollars. I wasn't joking when I said I used a spatula. It's an old party trick. But the real winner has got to be Elizabeth. Well done! A good round. Yaaaaayyyy!


Edited by olly (12/17/07 10:03 PM)

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#172174 - 12/18/07 07:53 AM Re: sabrage uncorked [Re: wofahulicodoc]
wsieber Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1026
Loc: Switzerland
Ah, oui, you meant "sablage" rather than sabrage!
- Interestingly enough, in French you say "sabler le Champagne" (specifically to celebrate) - "sabrer" also exists, but according to the "Petit Robert" dictionnary, it is not used in connection with Champagne. So this arouses a faint suspicion that your "official" story might belong the the realm of myth.

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#172175 - 12/18/07 09:10 AM Re: sabrage uncorked [Re: wsieber]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Oh, ye sparkle-dimmerds and Petit Robertoholics!

sabrer

The whole choice


Brush up your French. Both terms are completely allright.
There is as large a sable myth as a sabre myth.


Edited by BranShea (12/18/07 10:05 AM)

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#172176 - 12/18/07 09:58 AM Re: sabrage uncorked [Re: wsieber]
Alex Williams Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1814
Loc: Spam Factory
Originally Posted By: wsieber
Ah, oui, you meant "sablage" rather than sabrage!
- Interestingly enough, in French you say "sabler le Champagne" (specifically to celebrate) - "sabrer" also exists, but according to the "Petit Robert" dictionnary, it is not used in connection with Champagne. So this arouses a faint suspicion that your "official" story might belong the the realm of myth.


Which official story would that be? The quoted passage above begins with "There are several legends of the story of Sabrage or Sabering Champagne...." Michael Quinion at World Wide Words provides the following info on sabrage (excerpt) and also addresses the lack of certainty to its origins:

Stories hold that [the term] dates from Napoleonic times and was invented by cavalry who found it difficult to open champagne bottles while on horseback, but did have usefully heavy sabres handy.

Its language origin is definitely the French sabrer, to hit with a sabre. It’s a close relative of sabreur, one who fights with a sabre, best known in beau sabreur, a fine soldier or dashing adventurer.

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#172178 - 12/18/07 10:18 AM Re: sabrage uncorked [Re: Alex Williams]
tsuwm Online   confused
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10522
Loc: this too shall pass
as suggested by Bran's links, both forms (sabrer ou sabler le champagne) are found. and what appears to be going on is our old friend métonymie.

-joe (but I don't *know French) friday

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#172179 - 12/18/07 10:18 AM Re: sabrage uncorked [Re: Alex Williams]
Owlbow Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 389
Loc: Rhode Island, USA
Thanks for your successful efforts Alex.
Thanks wofa for your vote.
Sorry all for not voting.
At long last, for worse or better, I may be able to visit here more often.
Peace.

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#172181 - 12/18/07 12:29 PM Re: sabrage uncorked [Re: tsuwm]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
It says(Trésor)métonymie is a rethorical figure (form?)(I'm not familiar with rhetorics)
What's in the sable-sabre texts is that both "sable" and "sabre"
are of disputable origin, but they both serve long.

Some assume that sable comes from cooling the champagne in sand in the old days; others that it comes from a sprinkle of sugar in the glass before pouring the drink,(blast!) giving the glass a sanded appearance, others say it stands for ad fundum or drinking a lot of it. At least sabrage comes clearly from the military and in Napoleontic days.

It felt like an all win game and up to Sylvester midnight; I'll remember the sabrage.

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