Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#171874 - 12/05/07 07:00 AM reindeer
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
"reindeer" and "rendier".

As I automatically compare English with home language, the word reindeer caught my attention and I looked up its etymology.

I always thought "reindeer" came from " rein "; a deer that could be reined, controlled to pull a sledge.

For Dutch I thought it came from running . Ren means: run and dier means: animal in today's language. I thought "rendier" = : running animal.

In fact in origin it is a reduncancy : animal animal.
That's why I love language. reindeer There is no end to these litttle surprises.



Top
#171877 - 12/05/07 10:14 AM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
Ain't language wunnerful?
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

Top
#171881 - 12/05/07 11:05 AM Re: reindeer [Re: zmjezhd]
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
psst, zmj..

I'd ask about 'process' here, but we both know the score. (:

-ron o.

Top
#171886 - 12/05/07 11:56 AM Re: reindeer [Re: tsuwm]
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
'process'

Aye, och, it is a fine line between process cheese food product and mechanically separated meat.

zmj (two-bit ironwit) ezhd
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

Top
#171888 - 12/05/07 12:15 PM Re: reindeer [Re: tsuwm]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
psst, -ren o joe This so-called 'process '? A question on the Q.T. over my head and in the full limelight? See? Can't you ask for the obvious yourself?

Top
#171889 - 12/05/07 12:53 PM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
by way of acknowledging an affront to netiquette: yes, I shouldn't have posted that aside to jheem in the clear. I should have sent a PM, or at least cleverly hidden it in white. sometimes I get lazy like that. sometimes, even, I go for the cheap, self-entertaining laugh.

it was a cross-thread in only the most egregious and far-fetched sense; i.e., from another board.

-joe (additional rationalizations forthcoming) friday

Top
#171891 - 12/05/07 06:31 PM Re: reindeer [Re: tsuwm]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Just
you see,the quote button tells how cleverly hidden those white words are it's pretty inconsiderate to provoque zmj to mention mechanically seperated meat on a thread that is supposed to be about reindeer. Pretty most inconsiderate. No presents for you this year; coal, tar and feathers.

Top
#171892 - 12/05/07 08:45 PM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
>No presents for you this year; coal, tar and feathers.

dang. just like last year.

-ron o.

Top
#171893 - 12/05/07 10:22 PM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
a thread that is supposed to be about reindeer

I see people eating caribou. Saami, Inuktitut. You decide. Back to words. Have you ever noticed that in Europe, it's elk, but in Canada, it's moose? Same with reindeer and caribou, in respecitvely.
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

Top
#171894 - 12/05/07 11:08 PM Re: reindeer [Re: zmjezhd]
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
elk and moose are the same animals? are you sure?

(i only know roosevelt elk, a western US species--they also made there homes in the Bronz zoo)

and elk are western (other side of mississippi animals.. (moose live in maine.) or so it seems to me...
_________________________
my other obsession

Top
#171895 - 12/05/07 11:22 PM Re: reindeer [Re: of troy]
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
elk and moose are the same animals? are you sure?

Well, Alces alces, is called moose in New World and elk in Europe. Check out their distribution and this. In the States, there's a large deer also called elk. In Sweden, there is an elk test or "Älgtest in Swedish, [which] has been used in Sweden for decades to test how a certain vehicle, usually an automobile, acts when avoiding a sudden danger, such as a moose."

zmj (many words have many meanings) ezhd

[Corrected typo.]


Edited by zmjezhd (12/06/07 10:56 AM)
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

Top
#171900 - 12/06/07 05:38 AM Re: reindeer [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
I see people eating caribou. Saami, Inuktitut.

It was a side reference to the fact that while the Santa is on the air mentioning reindeer or caribou combined with "meat" might affect the quality of you presents. I should use the smileys more often.

elk or moose:
There is an interesting novel called "Le Roi des aulnes (The Ogre, aka The Erl King) (1970)by Michel Tournier. Place of action mainly North-East Prussia where the protagonist one day at dusk comes unexpectedly face to face with a gigantic old lone moose. Awsome description. If your interested:
Michel Tournier

Top
#171907 - 12/06/07 10:09 AM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10523
Loc: this too shall pass
I found an English translation, wherein the animals are called elk:

The elk of Canada was blind. Now Tiffauges understood the begging demeanor, the awkward gait, the somnambulistic slowness...

moose and elk (wapiti) are differentiated here, as seen in these pictures.

personal note: the Minnesota zoo has both moose and caribou, kept in expansive areas; they aren't kept together.

I've also seen moose in the wild (from a canoe, at a nice safe distance), in the BWCA of northern Minnesota.

edit: correction for wapiti


Edited by tsuwm (12/06/07 12:57 PM)

Top
#171912 - 12/06/07 12:19 PM Re: reindeer [Re: tsuwm]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Thanks a lot for those links stuwm. Beautiful land and animals.

>The elk of Canada was blind. Now Tiffauges understood the begging demeanor, the awkward gait, the somnambulistic slowness...<

Yes! That's it, good find that matches the book: Tiffauges is a prisoner of war in a concentration camp;he digs a tunnel for a way out. Not to escape (he's got nowhere to go) but to visit a little cabin in the woodlands he calls "Canada".
As long as he makes these sorties he smuggles roots and bread to feed the blind elk.

Edit: tsuwm.Comparing the two pictures of Moose and Waipiti, Tiffauges' elk was a moose. The prolongued head and the 'fernlike' antlers plus the seize make this animal outstanding among all other kinds of deer.



Edited by BranShea (12/06/07 04:28 PM)

Top
#171925 - 12/06/07 06:20 PM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
Maven Offline
member

Registered: 04/27/07
Posts: 120
Loc: California
The Moose distribution map is way off, even by historical standards. Alces alces are present in most of the Rockies, with large populations in Montana, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming and Colorado. I'm not sure about New Mexico, nor the states further west.

Elk too have populations in the Rockies, notably Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah and Idaho.

Both animals were primarily plains dwellers until the pioneers settled and started tearing up earth for crops. They gradually moved into the mountains, leaving deer and Pronghorns as the ungulates of the plains.


Edited by Maven (12/06/07 06:21 PM)
_________________________
tempus edax rerum

Top
#171929 - 12/06/07 09:12 PM Re: reindeer [Re: Maven]
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
Just to be absolutely clear. Alces alces is called moose in the Western Hemisphere and elk (in English) in the Eastern one (for instance, look at the pictures of elk in this BBC article on the Kostroma Elk farm in Russia). The different species, Cervus canadensis, called elk or wapiti in Canada and the USA. They are similar to the red deer, Cervus elaphus, of Europe. More to the words end of things: Latin alces 'elk' is cognate with Old English eolh, German Elch, Russian лось (los').
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

Top
#171932 - 12/07/07 04:07 AM Re: reindeer [Re: zmjezhd]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Abolutely clear is also that with the move from Europe to The New World some animal names have brought with them some little confusians. It's the waipiti also being called elk that does it. Like the hare-rabbit thing.
But we need not bicker over these.

Thanks for the new to me word un·gu·lat, Maven !
(Having hooves.)

The different species, Cervus canadensis, called elk or wapiti in Canada and the USA. They are similar to the red deer, Cervus elaphus, of Europe. More to the words end of things: Latin alces 'elk' is cognate with Old English eolh, German Elch, Russian лось (los').

>>Cervus elaphus then comes closest to Dutch " eland ". In the days of PIE and roots and Indo-Germanic migrations we peasants, traders, fishermen did go with alces alces and neither elk nor moose. " Eland " we call'em. Is that so? elaphus - eland, according to Djeem's Law?<<


Edited by BranShea (12/07/07 08:42 PM)

Top
#172108 - 12/15/07 09:02 PM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
Zed Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/27/02
Posts: 2154
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
so is it a case where a moose is an elk but an elk is not necessarily a moose? I wasn't aware that moose ever lived in the eastern hemisphere.
I came around a corner in a Nova Scotia highway one evening and nearly ran into one, a very bad idea as they can total a car, kill the driver and limp away. The average car will knock there legs out from under them and get a ton of ticked-off moose straight through the windshield.

Top
#172111 - 12/15/07 11:03 PM Re: reindeer [Re: Zed]
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Zed
The average car will knock there legs out from under them and get a ton of ticked-off moose straight through the windshield.


exactly what happened to me. luckily he landed on the passenger side of the roof. which ended up at hood level.
_________________________
formerly known as etaoin...

Top
#172115 - 12/16/07 09:17 AM Re: reindeer [Re: Zed]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
This one is taken in Sweden, the real thing.

moose
Or elk, what 's in a name.
I envy you both , I've never seen one on the wild highway ever in my life.

Top
#172116 - 12/16/07 10:10 AM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: BranShea

I envy you both , I've never seen one on the wild highway ever in my life.


no you don't. I should be dead.
_________________________
formerly known as etaoin...

Top
#172117 - 12/16/07 10:55 AM Re: reindeer [Re: Buffalo Shrdlu]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
I've had my near fatal accidents too, but without the moose .

Oh! but I'm awful glad you're still alive!


Edited by BranShea (12/16/07 11:17 AM)

Top
#172120 - 12/16/07 12:47 PM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
The name "moose" is from a Native American (Abenaki) word so it would make sense that they are not so called in Europe.

Top
#172121 - 12/16/07 12:48 PM Re: reindeer [Re: BranShea]
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: BranShea
I've had my near fatal accidents too, but without the moose .

Oh! but I'm awful glad you're still alive!


me, too! thanks! ((hug))
_________________________
formerly known as etaoin...

Top
#172128 - 12/16/07 02:19 PM Re: reindeer [Re: Faldage]
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
>>Native American (Abenaki)<<

There is elk as well as moose in their animal name list. But what does it matter. Can't we have just one Abenaki loanword in exchange for all the mish mash words that crossed the big water? I like moose. I think it is a moose animal, moose the magnificent.(of course it is up to the British )

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  Jackie 
Forum Stats
8740 Members
16 Forums
13807 Topics
215207 Posts

Max Online: 3341 @ 12/09/11 02:15 PM
Newest Members
auster, ozyildirimeda, KatieC, ashishsum, ackcat
8740 Registered Users
Who's Online
1 registered (wofahulicodoc), 41 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters (30 Days)
endymion6 82
LukeJavan8 75
wofahulicodoc 61
A C Bowden 34
May 4
FoFong 3
Tromboniator 3
LadyReader 2
TitoMatito 2
tsuwm 2
Top Posters
wwh 13858
Faldage 13803
Jackie 11609
tsuwm 10523
Buffalo Shrdlu 7210
AnnaStrophic 6511
LukeJavan8 6508
Wordwind 6296
of troy 5400
BranShea 5282

Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 2014 Wordsmith