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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Language is a universe in its own, evolved and evolving and open to be used for so many purposes. Thinking, expressing, logic, non logic, play, beauty, bringing into the open things of the mind not yet expressed, realism, surrealism. Communication ,yes, that too.
Last edited by BranShea; 06/22/07 09:30 AM.
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addict
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addict
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Isn't this where Anna comes in to say, "Move along, folks; nothing to see here"?  Ik dacht U wegging, Branny? 
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Ja,ik ben weg! Ik ben weg. Aramis.
(Uw Nederlands is perfect, de correcte beleefdheids vorm. )
Some technical problems with the disappearence engines.
O.K.! I'll get beamed off now. NOW! IK BEN WEG.
But I will pass by at date 07/07/07
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stranger
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stranger
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Now really boys, put down your books and think.
The advandage of language lies only in the accurate communication of progressive and sequential cause-and-effect events which postively effect the continuance of the breeding group.
Are you saying that you believe the greatest function of language is for group-protection ("continuance")  and/or sexual relations ("the breeding group")  ? You said the advantage of language is "only" in communication which promotes those two activities. Is that what you meant to say, or am I misunderstanding?  I hope there are other advantages to using language. Anyway, sea-slugs and coral continue and breed with what seems to my untrained eyes to be a total absence of good grammar and rich vocabulary. 
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veteran
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veteran
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Are you saying that you believe the greatest function of language is for group-protection ("continuance") and/or sexual relations ("the breeding group") ? No, Nanu Nanu, I'm saying that the ONLY function of language is in the abetment of procreation in the language group.You said the advantage of language is "only" in communication which promotes those two activities. Is that what you meant to say, or am I misunderstanding? I hope there are other advantages to using language. Nay, nay, Nanu Nanu. "Continuance" and "sexual activity" in humans are intimately related, but "lies" as such don't exist in the context of language except as instruments for projecting the language group through time. For example; the "lies" of religions and cultures succeed when they stimulate the collective will to live and obviously have negative effects when they don't.Anyway, sea-slugs and coral continue and breed with what seems to my untrained eyes to be a total absence of good grammar and rich vocabulary. No one I know, Nanu Nanu, has ever accused the corals and the sea slugs of having good manners. And if we humans can refrain from blowing up Earth it will be us who saves these poorly bred creatures from the Comet. 
Last edited by themilum; 06/22/07 11:54 PM.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I have had patients who, because of a stroke, have damage to the language areas of the brain. Note the plural - areas. The receptive and expressive language centers are separate although closely linked. I have had patients who are able to follow commands, thus showing comprehension of language but whose speech is disrupted at levels ranging from difficulty using the correct word to total gibberish or even complete silence.
I have also had patients who lose the ability not only to speak but to use any symbolism including pointing or pictures.
I am not sure how this fits in with any of the aforementioned theories of language but the human mind, as well as the brain interest me.
Oddly enough it is not unusual for a patient who speaks 2 languages to lose the second and rvert to the first language of childhood even if they have not spoken it for years. One elderly woman had to start learning English from scratch because neither her husband of 50 years nor her kids spoke any French.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yes, Zed -- I had a friend whose father suffered aphasia after a stroke. This was in the 80s. He was a Jew who'd fled Poland for Brazil during the Nazi regime. He totally lost his Portuguese and most of his English, though he could understand English when it was spoken to him. He could still communicate in a mix of Yiddish and Polish.
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Joined: Mar 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Isn't this where Anna comes in to say, "Move along, folks; nothing to see here"? No second-guessing allowed, Aramis.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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"Words That Work - it's not what you say it's what people hear" by Dr. Frank Luntz. Hyperion. ISBN 1-4013-0259-9
For an interesting take on language. New book; may not be in free libraries as yet.
And I just throw this into the mix : Ever had the situation where some esoteric thing was explained to you and you fully understood only later to be unable to explain it to someone else, even though you still understood it? Words fail. Sometimes. And then there is Ameican Sign Language (ASL)
But those are enough cats among the pigeons to be going on with.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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Howdy Mr. Cur,
Not ot be contrary, but, I must write that I disagree with the assertion that language is the vehicle for acquiring thought. You might find these three examples persuasive:
First, what about prelinguistic children? They have no language yet much observation/experimentation tells us clearly that they do think.
Second, what of deaf persons, who through unfortunate circumstance, do not have the opportunity to acquire any language. There are a few such folks around who have grown to adulthood with no language at all (neither sign language nor spoken langauge). Yet, they can clearly think' e.g., they can repair locks - a task which involves plenty of if-then logic. (For an absolutely fascinating description of this see a book titled "A man without words." The author's last name is "Schaller" and I can't recommend this book enough. It's an extrordinary story.)
Third, what of polysemy? If words and their referents don't correspond on a one-to-one basis, we must acknowledge the ability of a sentence's context to guide us in determining the meaning of ambiguous words. So, the next logical question is how would a person cognitively represent this ability?
Thus, I think that the conclusions from modern cognitive science tells us that while it is likely that only the possesion of language allows one to acquire formal/abstract thought, the function of language in this dynamic is strictly an intrapersonal one.
Clearly, language can assist thougth, but it is not thought's equal, nor is it even a necessary condition for the acquisition of thought.
As you can imagine, most of my background has persuaded me of the above, but frankly, I have heard little of the other side of the debate. Can you fill me in on it, and describe how it could refute the three above propositions?
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