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#163916 - 12/02/06 01:18 PM Re: Je Est un Autre
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13783
Suis derives from the Latin sum. Je est was never grammatically correct.

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#163917 - 12/02/06 01:29 PM Re: Je Est un Autre
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3286
Loc: R'lyeh
What is the context of this text?

It is from a 19th century letter written by Arthur Rimbaud. Here's the context.
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

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#163918 - 12/02/06 03:57 PM Re: Je Est un Autre
Hydra Offline
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Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 631
Quote:

What is the context of this text?




It looks like someone has identified a letter by Rimbaud; however, I ran into these words in a poem (a strangely paranoid poem) by Lawrence Durrell.

Quote:

Je Est un Autre

'Je Est un Autre'

—Rimbaud.

He is the man who makes notes,
The observer in the tall black hat
Face hidden in the brim:
He has watched me watching him.

The street-corner in Buda and after
By the post-office a glimpse
Of the disappearing tails of his coat,
Gave the same illumination, spied upon,
The tightness in the throat.

Once too meeting by the Seine
The waters a moving floor of stars,
He had vanished when I reached the door,
But there on the pavement burning
Lay one of his familiar black cigars.

The meeting on the stairway
Where the tide ran clean as a loom:
The betrayal of her, her kisses
He has witnessed them all: often
I hear him laughing in the other room.

He watched me now, working late,
Bringing a poem to life, his eyes
Reflect the malady of De Nerval:
O useless in this old house to question
The mirrors, his impenetrable disguise.

—Lawrence Durrell.



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#163919 - 12/02/06 04:23 PM Re: Je Est un Autre
TEd Remington Offline
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Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 3467
Loc: Marion NC
Arthur -- Autre. C'mon, guys, you need a good punster here:

I am an Arthur.

I am an Author?

This was actually written by his brother Jason, about whom it can be said he's always Jason Rimbauds.
_________________________
TEd

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#163920 - 12/03/06 08:12 AM Re: Je Est un Autre
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13783
Quote:

... you need a good punster here




I agree. Know any?

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#163921 - 12/09/06 01:57 PM Re: Je Est un Autre
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Quote:

What is the context of this text?

It is from a 19th century letter written by Arthur Rimbaud. Here's the context.




VQR » "RIMBAUD" EST UN AUTRE... his rendering of Rimbaud's mostfamous epiphany—familiar to most English readers even in its French original: JE est un autre—feels particularly clumsy. ...
www.vqronline.org/articles/2004/winter/grotz-rimbaud-autre/ - 37k - In cache - Gelijkwaardige pagina's


A little late, but lots of information.


Edited by BranShea (12/09/06 01:58 PM)

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#163922 - 12/09/06 07:31 PM Re: Je Est un Autre
Elizabeth Creith Offline
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Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 500
Loc: Northern Ontario, Canada
Quote:

The verb "suis" means "to have", does it not?

You might want to consult a French grammar.




Or a Canadian. Many of us speak some French, even if only the cereal-box variety. Definitely "Je suis", not "J'est", unless the lovely BelMarduk can enlighten us as to some idiom we sesquilinguals are missing.

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#163923 - 12/09/06 08:42 PM Re: Je Est un Autre
BranShea Offline
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Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Zemhjzd has the right context.

'La formule est paradoxale et même, semble-t-il, contradictoire puisqu’elle identifie le sujet, le moi, c’est à dire le pôle d’identité de la personne avec son contraire « un autre », indéfini, et étranger.'

Loosely translated:'The formula is a paradox and even, it seems, contradictory because she (it) identifies the subject, the me , which means the antithesis of the person, with his opposite << someone else >>, non defined, and a stranger.'

Je est un autre then will be : I is someone else . (Split personality? )

Still pretty heavy philosophic, but then:

'When he who hears doesn't understand him who speaks, and when he who speaks doesn't understand what he himself means - that is philosophy.
-Voltaire

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#163924 - 12/11/06 10:39 PM Re: Je Est un Autre
themilum Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 1529
Loc: Aladamnbama the most watered s...
Quote:

Can anyone translate this for me? Doesn't it mean "I (The Self?) is an Other"?






Yes, I can. If any of you give a damn then you must know who it is that is giving a swinging damn. Is it your lingual self? That outward self of sensory information who exchanges information and action with the external world or is the self who directs his fleshy robot into mindless actions?

If you forget a name who is it that recalls that name while you are busy interacting with the outside world? Huh?
And who does the dreaming while you are asleep?

Think a bit. Are you merely a biological extention of a self that is you but doesn't speak in words but in biological imperatives?

Or is the we who are but operatives of our own sub-conscious who is the we?

I think maybe yes.

I hope that you all understand and that we, of the cognitive bent, do too.


Edited by themilum (12/11/06 10:50 PM)

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#163925 - 12/12/06 03:30 AM Re: Je Est un Autre
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
I guess I know what you mean. We all have these two; the one who percieves, classifies and acts and the one who on a deeper level directs our actions and thinking more than we often would be willing to admit.
The part that creates the dreams when we sleep or half sleep.
(split personality was just a feeble joke, sorry).
Seeing it in French and isolated from the rest of the poet's letter made it maybe a bigger mystery than it is.

Speaking of driving forces, I did not mean to make this post as my early morning good sense told me there are lots of things to be done and yet I do. Your post touching the essense of the little phrase.

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