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#162761 - 11/04/06 04:56 AM Re: Grammar
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Quote:

Quote:

University students unable to write a clear article and teachers not knowing the rules themselves.




Technology has taken away our need to learn to add, spell, form proper sentences.
But it is interesting that it also simplifies the detection of cheating!




Of course it's pointless to compare the ('good') old times to now.
There's benefits and there are losses.
Technology simplifies the detection of cheating .

.There was hardly any cheating before technology made it so easy.
Both my sons went succesfully through university. They made extracts and papers themselves. When I was in college we read all the books and made the extracts ourselves. Now I still have a foster-son who I saw pull extracts from the computer and he never ever read the books.
And all his friends do.

.It's the cat chasing it's own tail somehow. Technogoly (strongly put) caused cheating, so now it's given credit for detecting cheating easily.

In 'hand written times' /.\ cheating wasn't even an issue (exept for the usual exeptions, which by the way were detected by an attentive teacher-prof just as easily. )
I know there is no way back, but I love creativity, craft, handwork and this complaint is heard from Dutch education managers and professors.. Lots of people still care and are worried about the basic capacity to express
thoughts, feelings and idea's in well written compositions.

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#162762 - 11/04/06 07:32 AM Re: Grammar
ParkinT Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 293
Loc: Orlando
Well put, BranShea!
I, too, find myself lamenting "the good old days" far more often as I gain years.

Remember the old adage:
When you take from one source it is plagurism.
But when you take from several sources it is called research.
_________________________
"I am certain there is too much certainty in the world" -Michael Crichton

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#162763 - 11/04/06 08:28 AM Re: grandma's glimmering glamour
zmjezhd Offline
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Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
Funny. What was the need for prescriptive grammars back in the Victorian and Georgian eras? All the lads (sans lasses) were getting their daily dose of grammar in their grammar schools and being caned for cheating or by other means molded into model subjects of His or Her Majesty. So why is it that no matter how far back one goes, people then also complained about the language being degraded and becoming decayed and harkened back to the Golden Days™ when the language was pure and fraffly well spoken?
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Ceci n'est pas un seing.

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#162764 - 11/04/06 08:30 AM Re: I stole it
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
interesting word.

plagiarism |'plj??riz?m| noun the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.
DERIVATIVES plagiarist noun plagiaristic |?pl?j??ristik| adjective ORIGIN early 17th cent.: from Latin plagiarius ‘kidnapper’ (from plagium ‘a kidnapping,’ from Greek plagion) + -ism .


(sorry for all the question marks... too early for me to digging up unicode/html code...)


Edited by etaoin (11/04/06 08:37 AM)
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formerly known as etaoin...

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#162765 - 11/04/06 09:08 AM Re: "plagurism"
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Addendum to etaoin's post: What's your excuse, PT, since you were educated before you allege "technology" took away the ability to spell (and know, or at least look up, roots)?

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#162766 - 11/04/06 10:43 AM Re: granny's pearls
BranShea Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5282
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
Yes Zmjezhd, I know that. All through history writers and educaters complain about this thing. But that is more a reassurance than a reason for regrets. I only find it hard to accept that so to speak
'the baby is thrown away with the bathwater'. Computers fine! But why throw away the basic clear common rules for commumication because we do not 'need 'them any more. They change all the time, that's OK, but
when I get a letter from someone working at my bank that starts with a total mess- sentence while she proudly puts a Drs. (meaning a university degree) behind her signature I feel embarrassed and send her a letter of complaint. Maybe a lost figh already, but ....


Edited by BranShea (11/04/06 10:44 AM)

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#162767 - 11/06/06 08:01 AM Re: "plagurism"
ParkinT Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 293
Loc: Orlando
Quote:

Addendum to etaoin's post: What's your excuse, PT, since you were educated before you allege "technology" took away the ability to spell (and know, or at least look up, roots)?




Laziness (masked as overly busy). I have been duly reprimanded.
_________________________
"I am certain there is too much certainty in the world" -Michael Crichton

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#162768 - 11/08/06 01:47 PM Overly busy
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Works for me!

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#162769 - 11/13/06 09:08 AM Re: Grammar
TheFallibleFiend Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 1523
Loc: Virginia, USA
"Technology simplifies the detection of cheating ."
In some cases it does, but not in others. The amount of cheating that technology helps to detect is about 1 one millionth of that which it enables. My oldest daughter is furious that so many kids in her "honors" and "AP" classes are cheating. She talks to them about it - trying to get them to change their ways, but they INSIST that their parents actually expect them to cheat - to do ANYTHING to get better grades.

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#162770 - 11/13/06 10:24 AM Re: Grammar
ParkinT Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 293
Loc: Orlando
This exemplifies an even larger problem with our (American) culture.
You see it in the childrens' sports events, too.
"Do anything to win". I think it is reinforced with these ridiculous television programs of (supposed) competition; survivor, great race, top model, whatever!

Hey, FF. Do you live in NoVA?
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"I am certain there is too much certainty in the world" -Michael Crichton

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