Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#162454 - 10/11/06 12:17 PM ex juvantibus
Hydra Offline
addict

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 631
Yet, this ex juvantibus line of reasoning (i.e., reasoning “backwards” to make assumptions about disease causation based on the response of the disease to a treatment) is logically problematic—the fact that aspirin cures headaches does not prove that headaches are due to low levels of aspirin in the brain.

I came across this phrase in "The 21st-Century Brain" by Steven Rose (a very interesting book!) The phrase yields about 16,000 Google-hits. It is, I gather, a term for a kind of "non causa pro causa" error in diagnostics.

What is the origin of this phrase? Who's Juvantibus when he's at home?

Top
#162455 - 10/11/06 03:04 PM Re: ex juvantibus
Myridon Offline
addict

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 557
Loc: Dallas, TX
My guess would be it's a Dark Ages/vulgar Latin corruption of "ex iuventibus" - iuventibus would be the plural ablative form of iuventus (3rd decl. fem.) - literally, from youths, from young men, or from the prime of life.

Top
#162456 - 10/11/06 07:47 PM Re: ex juvantibus
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3286
Loc: R'lyeh
No need to assume corruption. Latin juvo 'to help, assist, support, benefit; please'; juvans is simply the present participle 'helping'. A common phrase was dis juvantibus or deo juvante, meaning 'with god's help'.
_________________________
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

Top
#162457 - 10/12/06 11:24 AM Re: ex juvantibus
Myridon Offline
addict

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 557
Loc: Dallas, TX
Yes, "from that which helps" is much better. However, there's still a bit "corruption" because there was no 'J' in Latin till the Middle Ages. If you use a classical Latin dictionary, you still need to look the word up under 'I'.

Top
#162458 - 10/12/06 08:50 PM Re: ex juvantibus
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3286
Loc: R'lyeh
If you use a classical Latin dictionary, you still need to look the word up under 'I'.

It depends on the dictionary you use. It's really a stylistic convention. I looked ivvo up in Lewis and Short, which is about as classical as the dictionaries in my library get. It's under J for consonantal I. You could argue that a Roman Latin dictionary would list ivvo under IVVO as the Romans mainly used capitals letters, but then you wouldn't find a Latin-English dictionary in Ancient Rome.

[Edited typo.]


Edited by zmjezhd (10/12/06 09:29 PM)

Top
#162459 - 11/19/06 12:11 PM Re: ex juvantibus
Rainmaker Offline
member

Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 107
I only JUST discovered this phrase in an 1989 Anesthesia paper on a certain syndrome - that the diagnosis was made "ex iuvantibus" by admisitering a certain drug.
It is certainly something we do a lot, but never heard the term before...
Rm

Top
#172948 - 01/28/08 12:14 PM Re: ex juvantibus [Re: Rainmaker]
dalehileman Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 1773
Loc: Apple Valley, CA, USA
Syndrome ex iuvantibus--Very large upright barrel accommodating eager standup lovemaking by adolescents intent on demonstrating their adulthood. Set in rotation on its axis at at high speed, whereupon bottom drops out, centrifugal force holding occupants against wall
_________________________
dalehileman

Top
#173045 - 01/31/08 10:56 AM Re: ex juvantibus [Re: dalehileman]
Hydra Offline
addict

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 631
Some folks call these zombie threads.

Top
#173056 - 01/31/08 08:39 PM Re: ex juvantibus [Re: Hydra]
Sparteye Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1773
That explains where the brains went.

Top
#173057 - 01/31/08 10:07 PM Re: ex juvantibus [Re: Sparteye]
Hydra Offline
addict

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 631
Quote:
That explains where the brains went.




Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  Jackie 
Forum Stats
8687 Members
16 Forums
13783 Topics
213050 Posts

Max Online: 3341 @ 12/09/11 02:15 PM
Newest Members
sa'a, csmoore, Jane Luckner, anjela, MR LOGOPHILE
8687 Registered Users
Who's Online
2 registered (jenny jenny, anjela), 40 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters (30 Days)
wofahulicodoc 79
LukeJavan8 63
endymion6 60
jenny jenny 51
Tromboniator 12
Faldage 5
Mercur10 1
Jane Luckner 1
MR LOGOPHILE 1
csmoore 1
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30

Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 2014 Wordsmith