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#156782 - 03/06/06 11:03 AM Klerisei
afepple Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1
In wonder in which context you came across the word Klerisei.
Although I am German I have never heard this term before. What I do know, however, is the word Klerus which refers to all the members of the clergy.

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#156783 - 03/06/06 12:39 PM Re: Klerisei
maverick Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
Welcome, afepple. Personally I've never seen it before apart from in German. The closest is the word clerisy meaning literati or intellectual elite.

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#156784 - 03/06/06 03:14 PM Re: clerisy
tsuwm Offline
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Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10508
Loc: this too shall pass
[Introduced by Coleridge to express a notion no longer associated with the clergy]

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#156785 - 03/06/06 07:51 PM Re: clerisy
texketz Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 1
I suppose I do not find it strange that the same word which refers to the literati is closely allied with the word for clergy, given history; to me it seems there has always been a close alliance between intellectual knowledge and the sacred; I wonder if anyone here has read a book entitled,"Pythagoras' Trousers'? it's a bit of a rant but interesting in its exposition of the religious nature of knowledge. After all, in Western mythology, was that not Eve's greatest sin that she ate of the tree of knowledge?

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#156786 - 03/06/06 08:00 PM Re: clerisy
Jackie Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11605
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
[Introduced by Coleridge to express a notion no longer associated with the clergy] Is that why Anu put ...as long as you get your words' worth. ?

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#156787 - 03/06/06 08:09 PM Re: clerisy
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
There is consensus among most biblical theologians that the sin of Eve of was not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge but rather disobedience.

In a little-known pair of verses which were edited out of the Book of Genesis by scribes many centuries ago, the following appears. "And the man said to the woman, the Lord God has commanded that we may freely eat of every tree of the garden but, of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we may not eat. And the woman answered the man, 'Roolz!? We don't need no steenkin' roolz.'" These verses made it plain that the sin was not the ingestion of the fruit but the decision to disregard the rules which got Eve and her husband in so much trouble.

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#156788 - 03/06/06 08:20 PM Re: roolz
belMarduk Offline
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Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888
'Roolz!? We don't need no steenkin' roolz



So Eve was the first AWADer then?

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#156789 - 03/06/06 10:04 PM Re: clerisy
inselpeter Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 2379
Loc: New York City
Quote:

There is consensus among most biblical theologians that the sin of Eve of was not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge but rather disobedience.

In a little-known pair of verses which were edited out of the Book of Genesis by scribes many centuries ago, the following appears. "And the man said to the woman, the Lord God has commanded that we may freely eat of every tree of the garden but, of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, we may not eat. And the woman answered the man, 'Roolz!? We don't need no steenkin' roolz.'" These verses made it plain that the sin was not the ingestion of the fruit but the decision to disregard the rules which got Eve and her husband in so much trouble.




That, Father Steve, is a can of worms. And coming from a judge, no less!

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#156790 - 03/06/06 11:33 PM Re: clerisy
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
That, Father Steve, is a can of worms.

Well, Martin Luther survived a Diet of Worms in 1521 so I suppose I oughta be able to handle it in 2006.

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#156791 - 03/07/06 10:34 AM Re: clerisy
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888
Don't worry FS, worms is good protein. They tought us that in Air-cadet survival camp. Little tip from me though...if you're in the least bit queasy, you simply slurp 'em down without chewing. It got a few of my squadron through the day.

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#156792 - 03/07/06 10:50 AM Re: clerisy
Alex Williams Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1814
Loc: Spam Factory
*shudder*

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#156793 - 03/07/06 11:06 AM Re: clerisy
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888
Ah but Alex, I was young and impetuous, and wanted to learn to fly for free. If it meant I had to be the best air cadet they'd ever seen (only the top-marked sergeants got the courses) then that's what I was gonna be.

Other things got in the way of my learning to fly - nepotism, politics and such - but that's another story involving a different type of worm. *sigh*

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#156794 - 03/07/06 11:32 AM Re: survival training
Jomama Offline
member

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 133
Once apologized to a (non-conformist) Jewish friend for serving him
bacon...He said, forget it, he'd eaten rattlesnake in survival training, nothing else could be a big deal....and he was one who learned to fly at government expense.

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#156795 - 03/07/06 11:55 AM Re: learning to fly
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888
Hmmm. I see a pattern emerge here. Though we don't have rattlesnakes here. Would have been nice (she says nostalgically) to have those big fat rattlesnakes.

We do have garter snakes, but with our temperature, they're very small and skinny. Skinned and cooked, they are rather toothpick-like.

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#156796 - 03/07/06 12:34 PM Re: learning to fly
Alex Williams Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1814
Loc: Spam Factory
Survival training for AWAD involves being left to forage on a blank page, with nothing to eat but your words.

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#156797 - 03/07/06 01:20 PM Re: clerisy
inselpeter Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 2379
Loc: New York City
Quote:

That, Father Steve, is a can of worms.

Well, Martin Luther survived a Diet of Worms in 1521 so I suppose I oughta be able to handle it in 2006.




Somewhere or other I heard or read about this clue in the Times of London Sunday Crossword:

"kosher diet" (seven letters)

Answer (below):

knesset


Edited by inselpeter (03/07/06 10:07 PM)

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#156798 - 03/07/06 08:24 PM Re: clerisy
Coinage Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 1
As Fr. Steve points out, the transgression of the man and the woman wasn't about gaining knowledge. The citation shows it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not the tree of knowledge. (Apple Computer's logo and Isaac Assimov's misconception about knowledge and the pain of childbirth notwithstanding.) Humankind can't know the difference between good and evil without losing innocence (not ignorance) and choosing evil as an option. Likewise, their sin wasn't about sex but about wanting to be like gods (in control, no rulz!). Their embarrassment at being naked was because they suddenly noticed their bodies looked a lot more creaturely than godlike.

Like Texketz, I also don't see anything particularly ironic about clergy, etc. and clerk, etc. coming from the same roots. (The Scottish tartan for clergy comes from tartan for Clark (clerk), reflecting the reality that the clergy were often the only literate and the most educated members of their community. (Cf. "How the Irish Saved Civilization")

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#156799 - 05/02/06 08:13 PM Re: Klerisei
belligerentyouth Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 1055
Loc: Berlin
Hey afepple,

The term seems to refer a specific (regional) group of clerics. Eg. 'Klerisei Sowiesodorf', unlike 'Klerus' and much like 'Abtei'. I would be very interested to know how long this construction has been in use. Do you think it's old? I remember having some discussion of neologisms created using the suffix '-ei' with someone. These sometimes result in odd sounding words such as 'Detektei'. Some seem to think such words sound more official and are more concise, others think they sound silly.

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