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#15615 01/14/01 03:29 PM
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The use of "but" question made me think of an odd speech pattern I frequently encounter in the Southern Tier of western New York. In answer to a statement such as "I like chocolate", the standard response is "So don't I", when they actually mean "So do I". It's very prevalent, and highly irritating. I'm finding it in cross-generational usage, and at varying levels of education and sophistication. I've lived in many other places, and have never encountered this structure before. Has anyone else experienced this?


#15616 01/14/01 04:13 PM
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Re : "So don't I."

It's also been heard in Southern NH, Maine and parts of the Northern Kingdom. I heard it more often years ago, not so much now. Surprised, actually that it's still around.
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#15617 01/14/01 04:55 PM
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Wasn't some speech pattern like this picked up in "The History of English" on the islands off the Carolina coast? Not quite the same, but the usage of a negative to indicate a positive.



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#15618 01/14/01 06:54 PM
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I have always found the use of negatives common, if sometimes irritating, in the North of England. I can't remember the exact saying but for example, rather than ask "Did you like that?" I often heard "Didn't you like that?" said without the tone of voice which would imply anything negative.

This often leads to long, winded double negatives like "Were you not thinking of not going out today?" They tend to sound better spoken in the local accent, such as the North Yorkshire/Lancashire border, not far from Rhubarb Commando, where there is a lovely singalong accent. I used to enjoy sitting back and listening, rather than trying too hard to unravel what people were saying.


#15619 01/14/01 09:56 PM
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I often heard "Didn't you like that?"

Somewhere, long ago, I read that using the negative developed from the original phrase "Did you not like that?"
Make sense? Does to me.
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Another expression common to the southern tier of NY is "We're going 'down' to Ithaca" even though by looking at the map, one is theoretically going "up" if one lives in Corning.

When I first moved to this area and wasn't familiar with the towns yet, where places actually were located confused me. So I wonder from where the terms "uptown" and "downtown" came. I've always thought both to be unspecific unless one was actually going down into a valley or going in a southerly direction, etc.

"Adversity is the whetstone of creativity"

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So I wonder from where the terms "uptown" and "downtown" came.

In my experience it's region-specific or even specific to the town you are in.
Perhaps a way the locals can tell if you're a newcomer?
wow


#15622 01/15/01 03:49 PM
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If you look at a topo map you'll notice that coming to Ithaca from any direction is "going down", as would be going to, say, Watkins Glen. The northern ends of the Finger Lakes don't seem to be so drastically cut into the surrounding territory as do the southern ends, so probably you wouldn't hear the phrase used for Geneva.


#15623 01/15/01 07:07 PM
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No. I do hear it locally to describe going ANYwhere. They all say "down" for whatever town they are heading. Just a local idiom that confuses the newcomers for sure! We're in northern PA and yet, they say going "down" to Corning which is north of here in NY. It isn't a topographical direction to them at all.

And, a little bit of local interest: newcomers are generally called "flatlanders" and the locals (but not within earshot :-) of them) are called "ridge-runners".

"Adversity is the whetstone of creativity"

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I think the use of "we're going down to 'Nome'" comes from the southern usage of "y'all come down ya hear?". I assume the people in American south were usually directing this at their cousins from the north. Perhaps the "down" part just because common usage and people don't really think about it when their saying that they're going somewhere.


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