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#148378 - 09/29/05 02:41 PM Re: I, you, it
sjmaxq Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
In reply to:

...Hindi, which has a gender neutral singular pronoun

So does English. Please splain the difference, dear Max.


Sorry, ASp. I should have added "for use when speaking of people". While in English, one would never use "it" of a person without risking giving offence, and one would not use "one" without risking being thouight a pompous twat, in Hindi, "voh" is the standard pronoun for he/she/it.



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#148379 - 09/29/05 02:57 PM Re: I, you, it
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/28/00
Posts: 2888
Thanks for the explanation Max, mon chou, but it was our mademoiselle ASp that asked the question. Though if I am to be mistaken for someone, I think I'd be quite happy to be mistaken for her.


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#148380 - 10/11/05 08:51 PM Re: semantically amoebic?
WhitmanO'Neill Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 4189
Loc: Rio Grande, Cape May County, N...
>>manned/umanned<<

Unattended was also the first thing that popped into my mind (thanks, bel ) in that particular instance. However, I really never contemplated the dilemma of manned/umanned before. Because, I guess, it's one of those terms and phrases that have reached beyond their original genderism to become, in effect, agenderal, if you will.

And remember..."going postal" is always gender neutral.

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#148381 - 10/12/05 06:37 AM Re: semantically amoebic?
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13783
Quote:

one of those terms and phrases that have reached beyond their original genderism to become, in effect, agenderal, if you will.




Back when gender meant something in English and gender had yet to become conflated with sex, man and woman were both masculine and wife, which meant "woman" at the time, was neuter.

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#148382 - 10/12/05 09:01 AM Re: semantically amoebic?
inselpeter Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 2379
Loc: New York City
> Back when gender meant something in English and gender had yet to become conflated with sex <

I suppose that happened when "sex" became uncomfortable?

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#148383 - 10/12/05 07:18 PM Re: 'manned/unmanned' and gender neutralisation
themilum Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 1529
Loc: Aladamnbama the most watered s...
"No, no, you misunderstand me. I was thinking of unmanned here equalling undeflowered." - Bingley

I agree, Bringly, otherwise the sentence has little meaning.

But I disagree, inselpeter, if you compromise meaning so as to expand your bias then you become a party to deception.

To "man" is, as used, asexual...as in "the children are manning the pumps." Or "the pumps are manned by women."
Or, "Shirley, quick, man the pumps, the waters they are arising."

These usages have no disparaging connotation, except to silly men and silly women.

What? You want language to effect social changes at the sacrifice of an accurate transfer of useful meaning?

I thought not!


Edited by themilum (10/12/05 07:24 PM)

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#148384 - 10/12/05 08:58 PM Re: 'manned/unmanned' and gender neutralisation
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13783
Quote:

I thought not!




Well, if I were a woperson I would be highly dudgeonated by being called a man.

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#148385 - 10/12/05 10:16 PM Re: 'manned/unmanned' and gender neutralisation
inselpeter Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 2379
Loc: New York City
>>But I disagree, Inselpeter<<

Eh?


Edited by inselpeter (10/12/05 10:20 PM)

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#148386 - 10/12/05 10:31 PM Re: 'manned/unmanned' and gender neutralisation
themilum Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 1529
Loc: Aladamnbama the most watered s...
Ah dear Faldage, you of all people would hardly be dudgeonated if you were a woeperson and had the good fortune to be called a "man".

As for myself I know three or five woepersons and not one has ever felt anything but glee at being called "master" or "man".
__________________________________________________________________

man/ verb: take charge of a certain job; occupy a certain work place (Example: "Mrs. Smith manned the reception desk in the morning"

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#148387 - 10/12/05 10:41 PM Re: 'manned/unmanned' and gender neutralisation
themilum Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 1529
Loc: Aladamnbama the most watered s...
"But many readers do. If the object is to communicate, it is wise not to alienate them. This is not to endorse an over-indulgence in pcese, but considerations of gender do not obscure and, in fact, have merit."

Gee whiz, inselpeter, mine was but a mild disagreement.

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