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#147887 - 09/14/05 12:57 AM Re: I done bad(ly)
sjmaxq Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
I find the superiority complex (so nicely demonstrated by what you wrote on the bumper sticker) intrinsic to prescriptivism particularly repulsive. Prescriptivism makes no sense logically, and makes otherwise nice people behave in a churlish and mean-spirited manner.

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#147888 - 09/14/05 01:12 AM Re: I done bad(ly)
Father Steve Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
Superiority, repulsiveness, illogicality, churlishness and a mean spirit are among my many other faults. Psalm 51:3 says: "For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me." Part of the way that my sins remain ever before me is that, when I fail to concentrate on them sufficiently myself, some other kind soul is always willing to point them out to me. For this, I am, of course, grateful.


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#147889 - 09/14/05 03:36 AM Re: I done bad(ly)
Vernon Compton Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 273
Loc: NZ
Father Steve, I congratulate you on the aplomb with which you've handled the tirade from the grumpy old coot calling himself Max. To think that some people think I'm testy!


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#147890 - 09/14/05 03:45 AM Re: I done bad(ly)
Marianna Offline
addict

Registered: 01/09/01
Posts: 427
Loc: Spain
Aside from the transitive / intransitive debate (where I agree "graduate" is both), I'll admit that I straightaway interpreted the bumper sticker text as meaning something like "the truly educated are those who never stop learning" (graduate = finish the stage of "formal" education, put it behind you and move on).

I may be naive, but I'd think this meaning more fitting for a bumper sticker than the other. No?


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#147891 - 09/14/05 03:56 AM Re: I done bad(ly)
sjmaxq Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
In reply to:

I'll admit that I straightaway interpreted the bumper sticker text as meaning something like "the truly educated are those who never stop learning"




Which is why I went postal on our poor pacifist padre. The meaning is so obviously that which you give above, and yet prescriptivism demands that its slaves pretend not to see the meaning because of perceived infractions of "the rules". Gnats and camels, methinks.

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noho ora mai
http://maxqnzs.com/References.html

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#147892 - 09/14/05 04:49 AM Re: I done bad(ly)
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
and here I thought Max was giving us some serious irony...

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#147893 - 09/14/05 06:51 AM Re: I done bad(ly)
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
Graduate has been being used since the early 19th century as an intransitive verb, and is defined (without censure) as such in the first edition OED. Fowler's first MEU has nothing to say about it. Merriam-Webster's DEU mentions that the controversy began in the USA in the late 19th century by a couple of prescriptivists.

[Fixed typo.]
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#147894 - 09/14/05 06:52 AM Re: I done bad(ly)
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
> couple of prescriptivists

husband and wife team?

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#147895 - 09/14/05 07:42 AM Re: I done bad(ly)
TEd Remington Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 3467
Loc: Marion NC
The use of graduate that I abhor is "I graduated high school."

A\I always have the urge to ask how far apart the graduations were but I'm reasonably certain a person who would mouth that obscenity would not understand.

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TEd

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#147896 - 09/14/05 09:24 AM Re: I done bad(ly)
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
The M-W DEU mentions that "John graduated high school" types of sentences have only been around 50 years or so, but mainly in informal, spoken English.

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