Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
#141166 03/21/05 04:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2
K
kofga Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
K
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2
Is there a term that fits words which change their meaning with a shift in syllabic emphasis, and how many of these words can you come up with? For instance, INvalid means one thing, but in VALid means another. Ditto offense, project, secreted, and combine.
Thank you for your help.



G'PaKen
#141167 03/21/05 07:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
Z
Zed Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
Z
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
Welcome. Good question but I have no idea what the answer is.


#141168 03/22/05 02:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Don't have the answer to your question, kofga, but welcome aBoard. Are you from Georgia, by any chance--if you feel like saying, that is? I'll take a guess that you're from the South, at least.


Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
B
addict
Offline
addict
B
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
(am picking the 'how many?' option as I know I don't know the word to describe them!)

How about adding these to the list:
resort
desert
import




Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
impact and impact


Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 328
present


#141172 03/23/05 12:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467


heteronym or hertograph.

http://www.startwright.com/words1.htm

And this has all kinds of other interesting words about words. And I found it because I was going to coin the term isonym (like isotope) but a google found isonym already in use at this web site.

I am adding the site to my url list. Looks like a fun place to browse.

TEd



TEd
#141173 03/23/05 01:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Hi kofga

We have a number of technical terms to describe the properties of word ambiguities of this general kind, and you can often apply two descriptions to a particular class of words.

The kissing-cousin terms follow Greek descriptions, based on homo~ (same) and hetero~ (different), plus the descriptions of sound (~phone), name (~nym), and writing (~graph).

‘Homograph’ describes one of a pair of words spelled the same but different in meaning or derivation or pronunciation.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=homograph

A subset of these ambiguous words is the homonym: a word that is pronounced and spelled the same way as another, but that has a different meaning, such as bat as in "fruit bat" or "bat and ball".

The general type you are referring to is known as a heteronym: one of two (or more) words that have the same spelling, but have different pronunciation and meaning – for example "bow" as in "bow of a ship" or "bow and arrow". In other words, heteronyms are heterophonic homographs :)

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=heteronym


There are two main types of heteronym I know of: ‘grammatical function’ heteronyms and true heteronyms. An example of the former type (when essentially the same word is forming a different part of speech) is a sentence like this:
• Produce: These factories produce the produce that is shipped abroad.
In this use of produce and similar two-syllable words you will see that in almost every case the noun is stressed on the first syllable, and the verb is stressed on the second (e.g. noun: CON-test; verb: con-TEST). Some of these examples, such as ‘abuse’ and ‘abuse’, do not change their stress pattern: the words differ by the pronunciation of the /s/. In one form (the verb) it is voiced [like zzz}, and in the other (the noun) it is voiceless [like sss]. It can also be a verb/adjective pair:
• Perfect: The overture took years to perfect, but eventually it was perfect.
It can also occur through change of tense - the present tense and past tense forms of the verb to read are pronounced differently but spelled identically:
I want to read the sequel today because I read the first book yesterday.

In the grammatical function heteronyms, the pronunciation is certainly different in the ways analysed, but arguably the meaning is still very close. In true heteronyms, the meaning and pronunciation are both unique:
• Sewer: As the sewer sat sewing her silk, she smelled the stench of a slimy sewer.

Here’s a great sample!

"There are seven heteronyms in the following passage: 'Heteronyms must incense foreign learners! I can't imagine a number feeling than if they spent hours learning a common English word, a minute little word, then found a second meaning and pronunciation! Surely agape could not be a foreigner's emotion as he or she becomes frustrated with our supply textured English words, which, we must admit, can be garbage and refuse to be defined' (opening to 'Heteronyms', David Bergeron, English Today 24, Oct. 1990)."

(from The Oxford Companion to the English Language)

I guess there is a case for a word to narrowly define the subset of heteronyms formed only by different syllabic emphasis, but I haven’t personally encountered it yet… Heterosyllabiphonic heteronyms?!

There are some three-way heteronyms too. Can anyone get some?



Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 273
V
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
V
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 273
"Agape" - a word that is still not fully anglicised, and is little used outside religious contexts, in which its Greekness is normally self-evident. Personally, I think that its inclusion in the list of heteronyms was cheating.


#141175 03/23/05 04:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
There are some three-way heteronyms too. Can anyone get some?

lather



#141176 03/23/05 10:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
> lather

badabing, badaboom :)

That's the only one I ever remember unprompted, though I've got a few others scribbled down in notes somewhere. I seem to remember feeling less than satisfied by some of the offerings but!


#141177 03/23/05 11:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
lather

I get two of them.

As for mav's OED quote, I don't believe second works in USn English.


#141178 03/23/05 01:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Along with "badabing, badaboom" does one receive, perhaps, a small engraved trophy or a certificate suitable for framing?


#141179 03/23/05 02:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
> engraved trophy or a certificate

Is that a stright-faced reply to the original poster, FS? If so , you're a scholar and a gentleman, for I was rather rude to preempt it with my extension to three-way heteronyms! I encourage everyone to contribute more of those 'two~sies' to our esteemed new member :)


#141180 03/23/05 02:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
> I don't believe second works in USn English

Really? hmm, how do you say secondment or the similar forms?


#141181 03/23/05 11:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
how do you say secondment

Huh? How do I say what?


#141182 03/24/05 10:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
How strange - I hadn't realised you poor guys were impoverished by the absence of this word! :)


second (SEND)
verb [T] UK
to send an employee to work somewhere else temporarily, either to increase the number of workers or to replace other workers, or to exchange experience or skills:
During the dispute, many police officers were seconded from traffic duty to the prison service.

secondment
noun [C or U] UK
His involvement with the project began when he was on (a) secondment from NASA to the European Space Agency.


(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)



#141183 03/24/05 11:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
yeahbut, how do you say it?



formerly known as etaoin...
#141184 03/24/05 11:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Unfortunately it would not let me paste the fonetig representation. Lemme see ~

seh~CONDm'nt

edit: on further analysis, it may be a little closer to sih~CONDm'nt


#141185 03/24/05 11:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
thanks, mav. :¬ )



formerly known as etaoin...
#141186 03/24/05 11:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
se/ih~CONDm'nt

Irregardless, the addition of a suffix renders it hors concours.


#141187 03/24/05 11:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
second (SEND)
verb [T] UK


seh~COND


#141188 03/24/05 12:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
That one has not, apparently, made its way to this side of the pond.

I've read it in many a novel by people from your side, and have had context to tell me what it means. But never heard it pronounced before.

Makes me wonder what other words there are like that in "your" novels. But how would we know unless we got a book on tape (UGH!!!!!!)





TEd
#141189 03/24/05 12:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

Thanks, Mav, for giving USns the benefit of the doubt! ;-)

(I'd also never heard this pronunciation/usage before)


#141190 03/24/05 01:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
I guess I'd better get a Beginning Learner's Dictionary. I cannot believe this. All my life I have pronounced second with the accent on the first syllable, including for the meaning as a duelist's back-up. And apparently none of my teachers knew any better, because I was never corrected on it. But I listened to the pronunciation at this site, and oh my gosh. I have NEVER heard it pronounced this way:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Here's another first: when I tested that link--three times--, I got a window that said merely: No arguments in request. So I suppose anyone who wants proof of the second-syllable accent will have to go there (Merriam-Webster) or somewhere on their own. Sorry.


#141191 03/24/05 01:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Yeahbut® Jackie, I gather the only time it's pronounced this way is in the definition Mav posted:

"to send an employee to work somewhere else temporarily, either to increase the number of workers or to replace other workers, or to exchange experience or skills"

If you're not familiar with the usage then you wouldn't be familiar with the pronunciation, yes?


#141192 03/24/05 01:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
>I have NEVER heard it pronounced this way

write me in for three.



formerly known as etaoin...
#141193 03/24/05 01:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
the only time it's pronounced this way is in the definition Mav posted No; in M-W, it's the pronunciation given for:

Main Entry: 4second
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Latin secundare, from secundus second, favorable
1 a : to give support or encouragement to : ASSIST b : to support (a fighting person or group) in combat : bring up reinforcements for
2 a : to support or assist in contention or debate b : to endorse (a motion or a nomination) so that debate or voting may begin
3 /si-'känd/ chiefly British : to release (as a military officer) from a regularly assigned position for temporary duty with another unit or organization
- sec·ond·er noun


Trying the link one more time:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary


#141194 03/24/05 02:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210


formerly known as etaoin...
#141195 03/24/05 02:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
All AHD4 has on it with emPHAsis on the secOND sylLAble is: Chiefly British To transfer (a military officer for example) temporarily.

This is getting curiouser and curiouser!

Edit: Jackie, you're misreading the M-W entry. Only definition 3 is preceded by /si-'känd/

#141196 03/24/05 04:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Jackie, you're misreading the M-W entry. Only definition 3 is preceded by /si-'känd/ Oh thank heavens!
P.S.--I'm glad one of us knows what I'm doing!



#141197 03/24/05 11:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Well, I love this place ~ all these years we've been yammering away and we can still turn up pockets of the language that surprise us in our assumptions! :]

I would never have guessed that this was peculiar to the UK side of the pond ~ how about Tasmansylvania and other territories?


#141198 03/25/05 12:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Peculiar's the word, all right...


#141199 03/25/05 02:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Funny, in French we say secondement to mean secondly.


#141200 03/25/05 02:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
> the word

keep studying gal, and you too can learn to speak English!


#141201 03/26/05 04:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 500
E
addict
Offline
addict
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 500
Actually, this word HAS made it to this side of the pond - I once worked for Transport Canada as a temp and was seconded to another office than the one that originally employed me. Only in Canada, you say? Pity.


#141202 03/26/05 05:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
I've heard USns say "secondment" meaning a temporary transfer. Guess it depends on who you talk to ...


#141203 03/26/05 09:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
The military use of the term secondment was lost to the use of the abbreviations TAD (meaning Temporary Additional Duty) and TDY (meaning Temporary Duty).



#141204 03/30/05 01:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
B
addict
Offline
addict
B
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
Dunno about the Kiwis, but here is Oz seCOND is used as per British.

BTW the normal variation on Tasmania is Taswegia - no idea why and I must say Tasmansylvania conjures up an apposite image of forests


#141205 03/30/05 12:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
the normal variation on Tasmania is Taswegia Wha-at?! Why on earth...??? This reminds me of Glaswegians, but man is not gow and the city is not Glasgowia, and I don't know why it changes to Glaswegians anyway.


#141206 03/30/05 01:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
M
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
M
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
I'd assumed it was due to the Scots influence, thinking of places like the infamous Macquarrie Harbour, but come on in, blue, and tell us all the lowdown.

Henry Savery’s ’Quintus Servinton’, apparently Australia’s first novel, was published in Hobart. Anyone read it?


#141207 03/30/05 05:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
I
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
I
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
One of the witnesses hailed from the north east corner of England (he seemed to say "from north east of England" and the judge made a quip that that would be in the water) and he sounded all the world like half a Scotsman to me.

#141208 03/31/05 01:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 500
E
addict
Offline
addict
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 500
People from Halifax are called Haligonians. My husband hails from Sault Ste Marie, Ontario, and says that east end residents are Saultites and west end residents are Saulters. When you say this aloud, bear in mind that "Sault" is pronounced "Soo".


#141209 03/31/05 01:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
"Well Saultites is better than Saulters," said TEd complainingly.



TEd
#141210 04/12/05 09:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
B
addict
Offline
addict
B
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
...are clearly taking over from weedgets!

I was thinking of Norway when Jackie was thinking of Glasgow. Norway is the only one which to me makes any sort of intuitive sense.

As for the origin of the term Taswegia, I tried to google it and got referred back here. Hmmm...


Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,912
Posts229,271
Members9,179
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV, Heather_Turey, Standy
9,179 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (A C Bowden), 285 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,502
LukeJavan8 9,915
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5