Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#133336 09/24/04 03:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
...to describe a person whom one loved in the past but does not love now. The word--if I could get it off the tip of my tongue--is similar to "beloved" but beloved suggests a current state of mind. Can anyone help?


#133337 09/24/04 03:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 389
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 389
Amy


#133338 09/24/04 04:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
I feel your pain, Owlbow. <sympathetic smile>

In fact, the word I'm looking for is to be used in a book I'm writing about getting over a love relationship. I was going to use the word "beloved" to describe the person with whom one is striving to fall OUT of love, but that imbues the ex-love with too much present emotion. I'm looking to this group to help me find the perfect word for an "ex-" who is, at least for now, an ex in name only. Thanks.


#133339 09/24/04 05:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
estranger is the noun form of the verb estrange; once you get past this stage and actually have fallen out of love, the really obscure word anagapesis applies.




#133340 09/24/04 05:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
When you're done with your book/relationship, I'd be curious to find out how long it takes to 'fall out'.

looks like tsuwm and I were riding the rails...

BTW - Welcome Cathcoy!

#133341 09/24/04 05:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
Yup, musick, the right words are important, especially in healing the heart. Here's where I refer to this issue in my book.

Beloved or barnacle?

Some who reviewed the manuscript of this book suggested that I refer to the Beloved in a less romantic or endearing term; that the very use of the word “Beloved” suggests an ongoing attachment to that person. Words like “my attachment,” or “the one I loved,” or even “past love” were suggested to take the charge off a discussion about the Beloved. But I submit it’s unhelpful to demonize or even neutralize the Beloved and, during my own detachment, I refused to do so. After all, I reasoned, I tend to exercise good judgment when I love someone--that is, if I love someone, he’s worthy of that place in my heart until he proves himself otherwise. To now reduce the Beloved to merely an emotional “attachment” is to say that my judgment can’t be trusted. I believe that I honor the place the Beloved had in my life by referring to him as what he was to me. This treatment doesn’t compromise one’s ability to form a strong bond with another Beloved somewhere down the road--in fact, that’s our goal. We can cherish the memories and recognize the authenticity of the relationship by acknowledging, “I would not be who I am without this experience.” The relationship happened. It had a soul and a life force, albeit a force that needs to be forsaken now. As Whitney Houston sang so powerfully, “The ride with you was worth the fall.”

By the way, my working title is "How to Unlove Someone...in 30 Days or Less."

(Still searching for the right word, as I want to abandon "Beloved.")



#133342 09/24/04 07:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
tsuwm, you've given me an idea for fleshing out the "stages" a person goes through when they're moving through this universal challenge of falling out of love. Thank you!

I guess, then, we would have (1) Lover, (2) [possibly] Beloved, (3) Estranger and (4) Anagapesis.

What's the word for the person experiencing anagapesis--the Anagapetor? And the ex-Beloved would be the Anagapetee? LOL


#133343 09/24/04 08:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
I actually dated Ana Gapesis quite a few years back ... a lovely woman of Greek extraction with olive skin, black hair and eyes that looked right through you. But that's another story for another day.



#133344 09/24/04 09:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
...and eyes that looked right through you.

She wasn't related to Ana Strophic, was she? [cross-eyed threading]


#133345 09/24/04 10:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
That's funny, Father Steve. How did you refer to Ms. Gapesis, assuming you were struggling to escape the power of her gaze?

Let me give you all two paragraphs from the Preface to gain an understanding of the word I'm looking for.

This book is borne of my own experience of being unrequitedly in love. I say “unrequited” not because the man I loved didn’t love me back. He professed that he did. I use the word unrequited because he was unavailable to me. Whether the object of our love is unavailable--emotionally, legally or otherwise--or our love is unreturned, the end result is the same: love attachment to someone to whom, for the sake of our emotional health, we should not be connected. To provide brevity for the reader, let’s call the object of our love “the Beloved” and our own role as “the Lover.”

I tried everything to free myself: therapy, self-help books on ending love relationships, journaling, confronting the Beloved--you name it, I tried it. I became something of a lay expert on the subject! I longed to be, not in the opposite mindset of love--loathing or hate--but in the middle; that of indifference, or "out of love." I needed to help myself move on but I didn’t want to fill the space with anything less powerful or authentic than the love I felt. I needed to quiet my heart but maintain my capacity to love, both him (in a new way) and someone new. Being in love with someone we can’t have, or isn’t right for us, or who may be the right person at the wrong time, or for any other reason, requires dedication to freeing ourselves of love’s emotional bonds--bonds that often withstand the rigors of time and distance. Indeed, time stands still, and no geography is out of bounds, for those in love.

Suggestions?


#133346 09/24/04 11:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
... all those dark-eyed Greek girls are (at least distantly) related.


#133347 09/25/04 12:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 86
T
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
T
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 86
I longed to be, not in the opposite mindset of love--loathing or hate--but in the middle; that of indifference, or "out of love."

There is an old saying, CathCoy:

"Friendship often ends in love, but love in friendship never."


#133348 09/25/04 02:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Welcome aBoard, Cath. Your book sounds great. Well, there's always 'old flame'. First love or first crush, if the number's correct. (Somehow second love, etc., just doesn't have the same impact!) Oh--heartthrob? I suppose you could get lengthier with something along the lines of "the one whose protective shell remained impervious to the love I poured over it" (yeah, yeah, sign me up for Bulwer-Lytton). Or how about "mistaken soulmate"? Also--you might try a thesaurus, if you haven't.


#133349 09/25/04 12:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
W
wow Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Lost Love ?


#133350 09/25/04 01:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
All your suggestions are so thoughtful. Thank you. I especially liked Jackie's "the one whose protective shell remained impervious to the love I poured over it." Now there's a definition waiting for a word!

Maybe "beloved" isn't such an inappropriate word. In many relationships, the dichotomy is that there's a beloved and a lover instead of the reciprical beloved and beloved. Or Party A may fall out of love before Party B. Party B is left stranded with full feelings that must be gotten over.

Geez, if there isn't a word for such a predicament, there should be!


#133351 09/25/04 01:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Do you know, crush is the only noun I can think of that carries the connotation that the love wasn't returned. There really should be a word for what you're looking for--shades of meaning like Anu said in his Monday Word this week--because crush can also imply that the love was not love, but only infatuation. Anything else seems to require more words; for ex., the object of my (unrequited) affection.


#133352 09/25/04 02:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 619
G
addict
Offline
addict
G
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 619
theMilum's contribution lasslorn + example in another thread [Words for readers/writers] may give you a lead, CathCoy.

lasslorn: (LAS-lorn) jilted by one's girlfriend.
Knowing the nature of the lasslorn, as time ticks he will be less lorn.



#133353 09/25/04 10:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
Jackie, I didn't get much help from a thesaurus but I thought I'd post this link, which will keep me busy for a while.

http://home.comcast.net/~walkswithastick/relationshipsA.html#B


#133354 09/26/04 12:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
...stringer! A stringer is someone to whom you're still emotionally attached, as if by a string (or, in some cases, a 100-pound ball 'n chain). Many times, the Stringer enjoys your attachment, even if s/he's not willing or able to return your emotional involvement.

It's not easy to become unattached to a Stringer, as many a Stringee can attest, but it's possible.

Many thanks to everyone who commented.



#133355 09/26/04 05:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Many times, the Stringer enjoys your attachment...

The word 'Stringer' *seems to suggest that person is always pulling on the string... or at least is the one who has created the string... especially if we denote a 'stringee'.


#133356 09/26/04 05:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
You're right, musick. Stringer is still not the best word, but I'll explain in my book that the string is simply there, whether the Stringer does anything to perpetuate the string (connection) or not.


#133357 09/26/04 07:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
I don't think that this is particularly useful to you, but I rather like the Americanism "pre-loved" in relation to second-hand goods like cars. It unfortunately seems to mean that whatever is for sale has been loved in the past by someone else, though.


#133358 09/26/04 09:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 36
D
newbie
Offline
newbie
D
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 36
Ember.

Ron.


Ron.
#133359 09/26/04 09:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Ember

I like it. Still very warm, no longer in the fire... and because of that will eventually go/fall/die "out".


#133360 09/26/04 10:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
Oh thank you, Ron. I like it, too, especially in the context of what musick said: Still very warm, no longer in the fire... and because of that will eventually go/fall/die "out".

It's perfect, and I'm indebted to you.



#133361 09/29/04 03:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
Here's the first chapter.

Chapter 1 – Defining the Challenge

The first chapter of any self-help book is probably the hardest to pen, because much groundwork must be laid for the conversation to follow. The vocabulary for the topic must sometimes be defined, especially when the topic is esoteric and emotion laden. Sometimes there isn’t even a word for what is meant to be conveyed. Such is the “problem” of what to call the person for or with whom we experienced a profound love but from whom we must now emotionally extricate ourselves, especially when we don’t want to, when we would rather advance or maintain the love affair but circumstances prevent us from doing so.

My friends offered many suggestions. “The Beloved,” I was told, is too reverential, idealized and present-tense. The relationship is over, even if in name only, so the word for that person should reflect this.

“The Stringer” was suggested, as in someone who strings us along until we’re worn out from his/her disingenuousness.

"The Ember," as in still very warm but no longer in the fire, and because of that will eventually fall away or die out.

For a more wistful term, there's "lost love." There’s always ex-lover, but how do you ex-love someone? There’s “past love,” “ex-boyfriend/girlfriend,” “former sweetheart,” etc., but none of these terms hit the nail on the head. Finally, I thought, I’ll have to coin a word—for there surely is a language gap—to describe a love that must be abandoned, for whatever reason, while still fervently felt. Naming a thing gives us, I suppose, a certain amount of control over its effect upon us inwardly. And since this is a book about taking back your heart, control, at long last, is a very fine thing indeed.

Upon first taking to my keyboard, I had referred to my former lover as "the Beloved.” Some who reviewed the beginning drafts of this book suggested that I refer to him in a less romantic or endearing term; that the very use of the word “beloved” suggests an ongoing attachment to that person. Words like “my attachment,” or “the one I loved,” or “past lover” were suggested to take the charge off a discussion about the Beloved. But I submit that it’s unhelpful to demonize or neutralize the Beloved and, during my own detachment, I refused to do so. After all, I reasoned, I tend to exercise good judgment when I love someone—that is, if I love someone, he’s worthy of that place in my heart until he proves himself otherwise. To now reduce the Beloved to merely an emotional “attachment” is to say that my judgment can’t be trusted. I believe that I honor the place the Beloved had in my life by referring to him as what he was to me. This treatment doesn’t compromise one’s ability to form a strong bond with another Beloved somewhere down the road—in fact, that’s our goal. We can cherish the memories and recognize the authenticity of the relationship by acknowledging, “I would not be who I am without this experience.” The relationship happened. It had a soul and a life force, albeit a force that needs to be forsaken now. As Whitney Houston sang so powerfully, “The ride with you was worth the fall.”

Perhaps "the Beloved" works well here in reference to the start of the process of unloving, but maybe not so well down the road. In any case, I’ll avoid the straitjacket of using any term exclusively and, for now, to provide brevity for the reader, call the object of our love “the Beloved” and our own role as “the Lover.”

I will not address the emotional needs of the Beloved because, for the object of our love, there's a gain in being the Beloved that is beyond the scope of this discussion. We're talking about you, the Lover, and your need to release yourself from love that will break you—if you let it.






#133362 09/29/04 10:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Anything wrong with ex-flame?


#133363 09/29/04 01:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
I have to say that, given the context, I'd vote (as though I had one!) against ex-anything: everything about the chapter is soft, and ex- would add a shockingly harsh note, to me. I think that with the explanation, beloved works--er, Beloved. Yes, it does have to have a capital! Beloved emphasizes how strong the love was. Though I still call mine my First Love; it was most certainly unrequited--I was 13, he 28. It never flagged, as I saw him (not dating--was physically in his presence) occasionally over the next several years. I still get reminiscently starry-eyed when I think of him.


#133364 09/29/04 03:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 180
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 180
"Anything wrong with ex-flame?"

Or maybe just a piece of ash?



#133365 09/29/04 03:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
I agree with Jackie that "ex" anything is harsh (in this context) and "flame" is slang. I stumbled on Beloved and Lover in one of the books on getting over a relationship and it resonated with me. I think Beloved denotes a high quality love that was thwarted, not just a fling easily disposed of.


Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
T
veteran
Offline
veteran
T
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
Say CathCoy the pre-staging within your first chapter is fine except for the exclusion of any allusion to a rare but very real happenstance of romance, that is, that once-in-a-hundred-lifetimes event when two true soulmates meet. Kurt Vonnegut called this extraordinary union a duprass, a union blessed and cursed with ups and downs.

But whatever this union is called you will immediatly know that have met your spiritual self; one reflected in the alternate gender, and from that moment on, no set of intervening circumstances will ever change that simple fact.

Like a favorite daughter who marries a hippy and moves away to live in the mountains of Tibet, or a beloved son who is convicted for Grand Thieft Auto; Third Offence and is given thirty years at hard labor in the State Pen.
Your love for them, as it should be, is for life.

Good luck with your book, I'll bet it'll sell thousands.

Mmmm? I was just thinking...could you maybe use a collaborator?
I'm experienced.


Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 508
N
addict
Offline
addict
N
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 508
experienced.

As a writer/collaborator or Lover/Beloved? Just clarifying.


#133368 09/29/04 05:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
...just a piece of ash?

As if one was barking up the wrong tree?


#133369 09/29/04 05:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
or pining away...



formerly known as etaoin...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
I'm finding that many MANY people are "experienced" in what I describe--that is, struggling to emotionally extricate him/herself from a love that went nowhere. In fact, as I started researching my book, I was AMAZED at how prevalent it is. Only once did I meet someone who said, "Oh, I give myself about a week to get over someone." That person was otherwise shallow, anyway. I hope I can do justice to this important topic. There are so many nuances to it, I fear I've just begin to peel the layers.


#133371 09/30/04 01:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
just a piece of ash

Don't ya just hate it when folks throw bad puns after good?


#133372 09/30/04 01:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
jes' playin' fetch...



formerly known as etaoin...
#133373 09/30/04 08:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Welcome aBoard, Cath. Your book sounds great. Well, there's always 'old flame'. First love or first crush, if the number's correct. (Somehow second love, etc., just doesn't have the same impact!) Oh--heartthrob? I suppose you could get lengthier with something along the lines of "the one whose protective shell remained impervious to the love I poured over it" (yeah, yeah, sign me up for Bulwer-Lytton). Or how about "mistaken soulmate"? Also--you might try a thesaurus, if you haven't.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jackie, why would you want to call this person a thesaurus? Is there something I'm missing here?

Cathy, in every relationship there is one who loves and one who allows himself to be loved.(I forget who said it, and I'm not sure it's worth googling because I think it was originally said in French.)

This use of Lover and Beloved immediately calls to mind the Greek e)rwn and
e)rwmenos. Is this what you are aiming at?



Bingley


Bingley
#133374 09/30/04 10:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
Z
Zed Offline
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
Z
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
I was going to suggest Once-Beloved but I like Ember. No implication of anger or dislike, just a fading out. Once-Beloved implies a greater distance in the past with less current emotion.

PS welcome to the board.

#133375 10/01/04 01:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Jackie, why would you want to call this person a thesaurus? Because he couldn't get a taxi.


#133376 10/01/04 04:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Are you suggesting Bingley indulges in purple prose?


#133377 10/01/04 04:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Welcome, CathCoy. I have no suggestion to add. But if you use one of the words suggested by the excellent brethren and sistren, will you credit the AWADtalk forum?


#133378 10/01/04 05:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
Well, Anna, acknowledgements are typically made for extensive contributions, not just a single word, but, sure, I could probably find a way to work it in. :-)



#133379 10/01/04 06:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Well, either that or a % of the royalties, you choose!


#133380 10/02/04 01:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 176
D
member
Offline
member
D
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 176
CathCoy,

Maybe what you want to say in a single word just can’t be done adequately right now. Such a word would have to encompass the emotions one feels when thinking of such a person, as well as the broader ideas of lost love, lost hope, lost time, etc., combined with the more objective aspects you mentioned of not wanting to “demonize or even neutralize the Beloved”, and the awareness of having exercised “good judgment”. To condense all of those things down into one stand-alone, somewhat clinical definition would be quite a task. Consider too that what you are describing is not something that most people have thought about. In a way, your thoughts do not have the luxury of a ready context in our society’s thoughts about ex-loves.

Perhaps you could construct an analogy or metaphor that represents such a person, the place he or she holds in one’s life, and all the feelings that go along with him or her. Once established, condense the analogy or metaphor further by trying to encapsulate it into a referencing phrase or term. (As a marginal example, in Portuguese Fado, the feeling of longing and desire for love that one knows will never be, could be represented by the metaphor of an empty wine glass.) Maybe, in going through such a process, you will remember the word you are looking for, or find the right word to express your concept.

Once your book is published, and perhaps others dealing with the same subject matter, a context will begin to take shape in our society’s thoughts that may, one day, make the perfect word self-evident.



#133381 10/02/04 03:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
How thoughtfully expressed, Dgeigh. Thank you.




#133382 10/02/04 01:54 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
T
veteran
Offline
veteran
T
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,529
Me: Mmmm? I was just thinking...could you maybe use a collaborator?
I'm experienced.

___________________________________________________

nancyk: Experienced?
As a writer/collaborator or Lover/Beloved? Just clarifying.

________________________________________

Experienced in matters of love, nancyk. Everyone is experienced in matters of words. By age 45, the age most people reach their maturity, the average person has said, heard, thought, and read more than 5,000,000,000 words, so all English speaking people are experienced users of words and everyone is an expert. As for me, I was precocious and reached maturity and the early age of 35 so until now I have thought, spoken, heard and read over 10,000,000,000 words and will happily share a few of them here...

Yes, CathCoy, amen all that Dgeigh said, but one thing more.
The word that describes the state of emotion that you hope to utilize is paramount to the sucesss of your book. Most all self help books that I've avoided have centered their original concept around such a focal word. Take the time to look to other languages for existing terms that approximate the emotional state. Maybe the word that conveys the condition that you address doesn't exist in any language but if the meaning of a foreign word comes close you can imbue it with a fuller meaning of your desire. At last resort try German, hardly romantic, but you'll get a paragraph in a word.

Me? I would cheat and lift the name of a famous (or obscure) classical hero or heroine as a personification of the condition that you wish to describe. In this case only the intense love between the love and the beloved and the separation that they are forced to endure need be considered in your representation, and so you can then choose simply for sound and the aptness of sense.

For example you could refer to a male caught in this unbearable situation as a "Lindoro", and a female as a "Rosina", as in Rossini's The Barber of Seville.

Good luck.







#133383 10/02/04 09:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
themilum, I agree, the right word is crucial. I may have to coin one and I'm thinking now that "Unlover" may fill the bill. Here are the lyrics to a song (of which I don't know the particulars) that expresses the predicament in which the Lover, left by the Beloved, finds him/herself.

Unloose this hold you've got on me
You lock this heart that can't get free
Unlive the night you kissed and hugged me
Undream the dreams that we both shared
Unfeel the feelin' that you cared
Before you leave me, please unlove me
Unlove me
Unmake all the memories I can't forget
Unlove me
Let me go back to the way I was before we met
Back to the day when I was strong
When it wasn't sad to be alone
When I was happy-go-lucky
And I didn't know how good it felt
To hold you and feel my heart melt
Show me a little mercy and unlove me
Unlove me
Untie all the strings between your heart and mine
Unlove me
But do it real slow, so I don't have to lose you all at one time
Before you pack your bags and leave
One thing I wish you'd do for me
Take a little time to just unlove me
Unlove me
Unmake all the memories I can't forget
Unlove me
Let me go back to the way I was before we met
Unloose this hold you've got on me
Unlock this heart that can't get free
Before you leave me, please unlove me
Show a little mercy and unlove me


By the way, my working title is "How to Unlove Someone...in Less Than 30 Days," so this coined term may be just right, yes?



#133384 10/02/04 10:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
Ahhh, Anna, thank you. I've never heard of Julie Roberts but I intend to purchase the CD that contains this song, which I hope is as lovely as the lyrics. Thanks again.



#133386 10/03/04 04:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
...Consider too that what you are describing is not something that most people have thought about. In a way, your thoughts do not have the luxury of a ready context in our society’s thoughts about ex-loves.

Perhaps you could construct an analogy or metaphor that represents such a person,...


I, as one who can relate directly, can imagine there are plenty enough people who have thought about it, whether through experience, literature, theatre or even soap opera's/motion pictures... but, of course, agree with the "most" as quantity.

I suppose that if it was "a ready context in our society’s thoughts" we'd already have a specific word for it. It does, however, seem ready *enough... since the question is now being posed.

The 'ember' analogy holds up nicely to Dgeigh's *requirements.

CathCoy, did you actually® have a word then lose it, or was the concept so strong that you had everything but the word?


#133387 10/03/04 06:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
I
Pooh-Bah
Offline
Pooh-Bah
I
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
Assuming the relationship hasn't just died down, but one has been left, or forced to leave unwillingly, the process of healing is akin to mourning. You might, then, look in the **direction** of 'the demised.' (which is not, not, not to say that's the prize word, y'all. I know.)


#133388 10/03/04 06:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
Thanks for bringing this up, musick. I never had the word but, as you say, the concept is so strong that it needs a word. In fact, this "condition" is so commonplace--as I discovered when I began my research by interviewing jilted lovers which is just about every single one of us at one time or another--that I'm surprised there is no word yet to describe it concisely. I'm going back and forth between "Unlover" and "Beloved," and giving myself permission to use both. Here's Chapter 1 as it stands now. Some of you will recognize your well-turned phrasing.

Chapter 1 – Defining the Challenge

The first chapter of any self-help book is probably hardest to pen because much groundwork must be laid for the discussion that follows. The vocabulary for the topic must sometimes be defined, especially when the topic is esoteric or emotion laden. Sometimes there isn’t even a word for what is meant to be conveyed. Such is the “problem” of what to call the person for or with whom we experienced a profound love but from whom we must now emotionally extricate ourselves, especially when we would rather maintain or advance the relationship but circumstances prevent us from doing so.

Upon first taking to my keyboard, I referred to my former lover as "the Beloved.” Some who reviewed the beginning drafts of this book suggested that I refer to him in a less romantic or endearing term; that the very use of the word “beloved” suggested an ongoing relationship with that person. The Beloved, I was told, is too reverential, idealized and present-tense. The relationship is over, even if in name only, so the word for that person should reflect this.

My critiquers offered many suggestions. Words like “my attachment,” “the one I loved” or “past lover” were suggested to take the charge off a discussion about the Beloved. “The Stringer” was suggested, as in someone who strings us along until we’re worn out from his/her disingenuousness. "The Ember" was another good suggestion, as in still very warm but no longer in the fire, and because of that the relationship will eventually die out. For a more wistful term, there's "lost love." There’s always ex-lover, but how do you ex-love someone? There’s “past love,” “ex-boyfriend/girlfriend,” “former sweetheart,” etc., but none of these terms hit the nail on the head.

Our language really has no precise word for the feeling of longing and desire for a love that one knows will never be. Such a word would have to encompass the emotions one feels when thinking of such a person, as well as the broader ideas of lost love, lost hope and lost time. To condense all of those things down into one stand-alone, somewhat clinical definition is quite a task, which may be why an apt word does not yet exist.

I resisted any words with even a hint of condemnation. I submit that it’s unhelpful to demonize or neutralize the Beloved and, during my own detachment, I refused to do so. We can cherish the memories and recognize the authenticity of the relationship by acknowledging, “I would not be who I am without this experience.” The relationship happened. It had a soul and a life force, albeit a force that needs to be forsaken now.

Finally, I thought, I’ll have to coin a word—for there surely is a language gap—to describe a love that must be abandoned, for whatever reason, while still fervently felt. Naming a thing gives us a certain amount of control over its effect on us inwardly. And since this is a book about taking back your heart, control, at long last, is a very fine thing indeed.

The lyrics of this song come closest to what I wanted to convey.

"Unlove Me" (lyrics by Julie Roberts)

Unloose this hold you've got on me
Unlock this heart that can't get free
Unlive the nights you kissed and hugged me
Undream the dreams that we both shared
Unfeel the feelin' that you cared

Before you leave me, please unlove me
Unmake all the memories I can't forget
Let me go back to the way I was before we met
Back to the day when I was strong

When it wasn't sad to be alone
When I was happy-go-lucky
And I didn't know how good it felt
To hold you and feel my heart melt

Show me a little mercy and unlove me
Untie all the strings between your heart and mine
But do it real slow, so I don't have to lose you all at one time

Before you pack your bags and leave
One thing I wish you'd do for me
Take a little time to just unlove me

Unmake all the memories I can't forget
Let me go back to the way I was before we met
Unloose this hold you've got on me
Unlock this heart that can't get free

Before you leave me, please unlove me
Show a little mercy and unlove me

Perhaps "the Unlover" works well here in reference to the start of the process of unloving the Beloved, but maybe not so well down the road. In any event, I’ll avoid the straitjacket of using any term exclusively and, for now, if only to provide brevity for the reader, most of the time call the object of our love “the Unlover” and our own role as “the Lover.”

I will not address the emotional needs of the Unlover because, for the object of our love, there's a gain in being the Unlover that is beyond the scope of this discussion. We're talking about you, the Lover, and your need to release yourself from love that will break you—if you let it.

* * *



#133389 10/03/04 06:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
insalpeter, your suggestion is also apt. The situation I'm describing, however, is all the more problematic because the "deceased" is still alive! There is still the ability, in some cases, to pick up the phone and speak to the Unlover. That's the problem! So some of society's aids to grieving aren't available to the person intractably in love. After a while, nobody wants to hear about your broken heart. I intend to cover this subtle nuance of grief briefly in another chapter. Thanks for your insight.




#133390 10/07/04 12:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Gee, tsuwm, maybe we should call this concept-looking-for-a-word an unbegging term?

Cath, this word in and of itself doesn't evoke the past, but if the context around it did, then perhaps it would be understood: what about "idol"?



#133391 10/07/04 03:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
Thanks, Jackie. I'm going to ruminate on "idol" for a while. It has possibilities.



#133392 10/08/04 12:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
Well, it's over a week later, and I'm not much closer to finding the precise word, although I've further fleshed out the problem. In fact, I've changed the working title to "Unchain Your Own Heart--How to Unlove Someone in 30 Days...or Less." All your contributions are so appreciated!

Chapter 1 – Defining the Challenge

The first chapter of any self-help book is probably hardest to pen because much groundwork must be laid for the discussion that follows. The vocabulary for the topic must sometimes be defined, especially when the topic is esoteric or emotion laden. Sometimes there isn’t even a word for what is meant to be conveyed. Such is the “problem” of what to call the person for or with whom we experienced a profound love but from whom we must now emotionally extricate ourselves, especially when we would rather maintain or advance the relationship but circumstances prevent us from doing so.

Upon first taking to my keyboard, I referred to my former lover as "my beloved.” Some who reviewed the beginning drafts of this book suggested that I refer to him in a less romantic or endearing term; that the very use of the word “beloved” suggested an ongoing relationship with that person. My beloved, I was told, is too reverential, idealized and present-tense. The relationship is over, even if in name only, so the word for that person should reflect this.

My critiquers offered many suggestions. Words like “my attachment,” “the one I loved” or “past lover” were suggested to take the charge off a discussion about a beloved. “The Stringer” was suggested, as in someone who strings us along until we’re worn out from his/her disingenuousness. "The Ember" was another good suggestion, as in still very warm but no longer in the fire, and because of that the relationship will eventually die out. For a more wistful term, there's "lost love." There’s always ex-lover, but how do you ex-love someone? There’s “past love,” “ex-boyfriend/ girlfriend,” “former sweetheart,” etc., but none of these terms hit the nail on the head. Someone whimsically suggested, “the one whose protective shell remained impervious to the love I poured over it” but that’s another book entirely!

I resisted any words with even a hint of condemnation. I submit that it’s unhelpful to demonize or neutralize the beloved and, during my own detachment, I refused to do so. We can cherish the memories and recognize the authenticity of the relationship by acknowledging, “I would not be who I am without this experience.” The relationship happened. It had a soul and a life force, albeit a force that needs to be forsaken now.

Our language really has no precise word for the feeling of longing and desire for a love that one knows will never be. Such a word would have to encompass the emotions one feels when thinking of such a person, as well as the broader ideas of lost love, lost hope and lost time. To condense all of those things down into one stand-alone, somewhat clinical definition is quite a task, which may be why an apt word does not yet exist.

Finally, I thought, I’ll have to coin a word—for there surely is a language gap—to describe a love that must be abandoned while still fervently felt. Naming a thing gives us a certain amount of control over its effect on us inwardly. And since this is a book about taking back your heart, control—at long last—is a very fine thing indeed.

The lyrics of this song come closest to what I wanted to convey.

"Unlove Me" (lyrics by Julie Roberts)

Unloose this hold you've got on me
Unlock this heart that can't get free
Unlive the nights you kissed and hugged me
Undream the dreams that we both shared
Unfeel the feelin' that you cared

Before you leave me, please unlove me
Unmake all the memories I can't forget
Let me go back to the way I was before we met
Back to the day when I was strong

When it wasn't sad to be alone
When I was happy-go-lucky
And I didn't know how good it felt
To hold you and feel my heart melt

Show me a little mercy and unlove me
Untie all the strings between your heart and mine
But do it real slow, so I don't have to lose you all at one time

Before you pack your bags and leave
One thing I wish you'd do for me
Take a little time to just unlove me

Unmake all the memories I can't forget
Let me go back to the way I was before we met
Unloose this hold you've got on me
Unlock this heart that can't get free

Before you leave me, please unlove me
Show a little mercy and unlove me

When reading the "Unlove Me" lyrics, I couldn't help but hear the late, great Ray Charles pleading

Unchain my heart, baby let me be,
Unchain my heart, 'cause you don't care about me.
You got me sewn up like a pillow case,
But you let my love go to waste,
So unchain my heart, oh please, baby, set me free.

Unchain my heart, baby let me go,
Unchain my heart, 'cause you don't love me no more,
Every time I call you on the phone,
Some fella tells me that you're not at home,

I'm under your spell, like a man in a trance,
But I know darn well, that I don't stand a chance.

Unchain my heart, let me go my way,
Unchain my heart, you worry me night and day.
Why lead me through a life of misery,
When you don't care a bag of beans for me,
So unchain my heart, oh please, baby, set me free.

I'm under your spell, like a man in a trance,
You know darn well, that I don't stand a chance.

So unchain my heart, let me go my way,
Unchain my heart, you worry me night and day.
Why lead me through a life of misery,
When you don't care a bag of beans for me,
So unchain my heart, please, baby, set me free.

Won't you set me free...

It struck me that the lyrics to both songs are actually expressing the opposite of the goal of this book, which is to empower one to unchain their own heart, rather than ceding control of the "unlove" process to the unrequiter by pleading with him/her to release the bonds. We're talking about you, the Lover, and your need to release yourself from love that falls short of the mutual love, respect and commitment you deserve.

Perhaps "the Unloved" works well here at the start of the process of unloving a beloved, but maybe not so well down the road. Unloved is pronounced like the noun form of beloved (bee-lov-ved) and, in this context, is also a noun. Un-lov-ved. In any event, I’ll avoid the straitjacket of using any term exclusively and, for now, if only to provide brevity for the reader, most of the time call the object of our love “the Unloved” and our own role as “the Lover.”

While this book will not directly address the emotional needs of the Unloved, there are several scenarios in which the skills promoted by this book are appropriate, including:

1) The Unloved is loved from afar, and s/he may not even know that the Lover is in love with them, and has certainly never expressed love for the Lover;

2) The Unloved is in a relationship with the Lover, and may even express love for the Lover, but acts in a selfish, cold, unloving way;

3) The Unloved is in fact madly in love with the Lover, but is a person who isn’t right for the Lover, or who may be the right person at the wrong time or is unavailable, emotionally or legally or both.

There are probably more permutations of love entanglements that fall short of the reciprocal love, attention and focus you seek. The bottom line is that, you, the Lover, must move on. By defining the object of your love in a matter-of-fact way, you take the wistful longing out of your everyday life, turn it into productive love energy and point it toward the future.

* * *




#133393 10/08/04 07:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 33
M
newbie
Offline
newbie
M
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 33
"Unchain Your Own Heart--How to Unlove Someone in 30 Days...or Less."

Great title, CathCoy. Your book is headed for success.
I'll take two. One for myself and one for a friend.


#133394 10/10/04 12:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
C
CathCoy Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
C
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22
Thanks, MELT. I'll remember that. :-)



#133395 02/24/05 02:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 389
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 389
Razbliuto [ros-blee-oo-toe] (noun), Russian
This melancholic, bittersweet word is used to describe lost love. Specifically, it’s a feeling a person has for someone he or she once loved but no longer feels the same way about. It’s a brilliantly succinct word and captures that feeling of the maddeningly ephemeral nature of love.


This book just came in to one of our little libraries.

In Other Words
A Language Lover’s Guide to the Most Intriguing Words Around the World
Christopher J. Moore
Levenger Press


I PM'd CathCoy with this, but I posted too - for old time's sake...


#133396 02/25/05 12:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
W
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
W
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
And its opposite would be 'carrying a torch,' but also bittersweet.


#133397 02/25/05 06:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
this excerpt from In Other Words (the same source!?) gives a narrower definition.

razbliuto
The confusing bundle of emotions felt by Russian males for their ex-girlfriends.

http://www.wordswithoutborders.org/article.php?lab=InOtherWords

likewise "They Have A Word For It," by Howard Rheingold
razbliuto: the feeling that Russian men have for their old girlfriends


#133398 02/27/05 01:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Welcome to our Merry Band of Wordsters, Cathcoy!

Your book selections sound great and I wish you a world of success with your work.

Well, before I hit the post where you mentioned ex- anything may sound too harsh, this kept coming to mind:

ex-amour...?


#133399 02/27/05 02:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
WO'N, I'm not sure you'll get much of a response. The Cathcoy post dates back to October of last year.




#133400 02/27/05 02:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Thanks, bel...see how much I've missed (sigh).


#133401 02/27/05 09:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
B
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Don't worry WO'N, you know there're plenty of posts to add to every day.


#133402 02/28/05 04:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 389
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 389
this excerpt from In Other Words (the same source!?) gives a narrower definition.
tsuwm, I think it's a poor paraphrase trying to pass as a quote. The nerve!
I read the whole little book this weekend and I do not see those words in it, only the quote I posted, ('hope I'm not breaking any copyright laws).

Hey Cath - are you there? -it's only been 5 mos.


#133403 02/28/05 06:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
oooh, 2 weeks past valentines day, and the man is still reading (and studying!) words of love..
either he is late with his valentine, or head over heals!
(you don't have to say which, owlbow)


#133404 03/01/05 01:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Carpal Tunnel
Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,661
Yeahbut ®, if'n he does, I'll know whether to congratulate 'im or warn 'im...


#133405 03/04/05 07:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 96
A
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
A
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 96
Catching up, and I see the reason I've been single for 20+ years...I married one, and realized my mistake eventually: "head over heals", indeed.


Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  Jackie 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,322
Members9,182
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
Ineffable, ddrinnan, TRIALNERRA, befuddledmind, KILL_YOUR_SUV
9,182 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 412 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,542
wofahulicodoc 10,535
LukeJavan8 9,916
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2024 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5