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#13177 12/17/00 11:45 PM
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stales Offline OP
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I've always wondered why EVERY country sees fit to reinterpret the names of every other country's cities (eg Firenze = Florence).

Is this a form of cultural arrogance or simply convenience?

(I laboured under the misassumption that I lived in AustraliA until I travelled through Europe - only then did I find out that the place was actually called AustraliE!!)

stales


#13178 12/18/00 01:52 AM
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Here I go ... this response is based on general ignorance and guesswork.

Two things seem to occur.

One is that there is an historical mispronunciation or difficulty with pronunciation of the name which then translates into an ongoing misspelling of the name. Hence, in English Firenze = Florence, Roma = Rome, Munchen = Munich, Lunnon = London. Yet Berlin = Berlin, Milan = Milan, Pisa = Pisa, and so on.

The other one is that some languages don't happily accept names which don't fit their linguistic approach to life. Examples of this are Australie = Australia in German, Nyujirando = New Zealand in Japanese (although I won't swear to the spelling of the Japanese word).

I've noticed that when a place from parts foreign which doesn't usually crop up makes it on to the news these days (e.g. Grozny and Chechnya), there is no "anglicisation". Instead we have a newsreader valiantly trying to remember how the hell that name was pronounced and either making a bold, valiant attempt at it, or mumbling into his/her beard in the hope that it won't be noticed.

We appear to have learned our lesson here, while stubbornly refusing to correct past errors at the expense of reissuing millions of maps, books and other assorted communications devices.

My $0.02 worth ...



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#13179 12/18/00 02:12 AM
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I think people are catching on that it is just not polite to be misspelling the names of other countries.

On my recent Rand McNally atlas, a special effort has been made to print up the maps with the names of the countries as they are actually called. They have anglicized (or spelled phonetically) some names, as some countries do not have the same alphabet.

I can see how it can be disturbing. I am always in awe when I see Canada spelled with a K. Yet I am guilty of having called Australia Australie, when speaking in French because this was the name I was taught.

I always, and I mean always, make sure I spell a customer's name correctly. If I am not sure, I will even call someone in his/her office to confirm. I think it is elementary politeness. Hmmm, I wonder how it would go over if I spelled the names of countries correctly. In the immortal words of Drew Barrimore in Ever After "I shall try."


#13180 12/18/00 02:32 AM
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Strikes me that it is not always the fault of the culturally arrogrant. For example, I grew up calling the city in China "Peking" and then was suddenly informed that it was "Beijing." So who changed the rules?




#13181 12/18/00 06:14 AM
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Father Steve has it right - arrogance is the wrong word. It is simply usage. If my (leaky) memory serves me right, Peking is from the ?Cantonese dialect while Beijing is ?Mandarin. Or it maybe the difference between pinyin and other transliteration systems. Whatever. Someone did tell me and I, with my usual knack, managed to lose the details somewhere.

Anyway, I have learned something from this thread. Drew Barrymore has said something that someone considered immortal. Ay di me!



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#13182 12/18/00 07:04 AM
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Drew Barrymore's greatest assets are not verbal, neither of them.



#13183 12/18/00 07:46 AM
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stales Offline OP
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C Kiwi - I think you may've just offended the Milanese - aren't they of the opinion they live in Milano, not Milan?

stales


#13184 12/18/00 08:32 AM
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stales reprimanded: C Kiwi - I think you may've just offended the Milanese - aren't they of the opinion they live in Milano, not Milan?

... as Emanuela has pointed out politely in a private message. Sorry Milano. Keep them Ferraris rolling out ... and shy one my way, please!



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#13185 12/18/00 08:37 AM
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Our resident religious noted: Drew Barrymore's greatest assets are not verbal, neither of them.

And they're not that great anyway. Not that I've noticed or anything. I mean, I used to, but I can't for the life of me remember why.

Pssst, Padre, we better watch it. The gutter police from Old Kaintuck will be after us ...



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#13186 12/18/00 10:42 AM
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It's generally considered pretentious and rude to interlard your conversation with French words or your writing with Latin quotations. I think it's equally pretentious and rude ("I'm smarter than you; I've travelled more") to use foreign names instead of English names when speaking English.

You don't go on holiday to Deutschland and Elas and Italia, because that's not what they're called in English. We learn place names the same as we learn common names: in our cradle and from those around us. They are part of English like any other words.


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