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#12633 12/14/00 11:24 AM
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Mav said: Ironic, isn't it, given that "bloody" was itself spawned as a euphemism to avoid the sacrilegious "by our lady"!

I find the early to mid seventeenth century a fascinating period. It by turn produced some of the most risque plays ever produced and yet imposed the most repressive religious conformity ever known in England under Cromwell. This was, of course, the reason for most of the euphemisms used then, several of which are still in use today. (Packrats again ...) Talk about contrasts!

I've always considered that the Renaissance never really hit England until the Restoration. That period had all the ingredients which had been present in Italy two centuries earlier. I assume everyone has read Pepy's diaries. They're so revealing it's almost like being there. And I'm not talking about the grubby bits.



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#12634 12/14/00 03:29 PM
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Don't assume some such CapK. What are Pepy's diaries?

Wasn't the theater (or the actors at least) considered lower class. This may have to do with the fact that they could get away with saying things the general population could not.


#12635 12/14/00 04:57 PM
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In reply to:

the theater considered lower class


The reason you assign is maybe a little far out. More likely: a) the people who were in the theater did it for a living; doing anything for a living was low class -- gentlemen and ladies didn't have to earn a living. b) in the 16th to 18th centuries women connected to the theater were automatically assumed to be whores (and most actually were). The Cromwellian/Presbyterian parties abominated the theater generally, on the grounds that actors presented a falsity, that they might teach publicly something contrary to the Word of God, it was riddled with whores, etc., and probably on the grounds that someone might have a good time for a couple hours.


#12636 12/14/00 10:10 PM
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Bob said, and quite rightly: ... and probably on the grounds that someone might have a good time for a couple hours.

Yes under the Commonwealth pleasure was not for the lower classes. Even Ollie himself was a little ambivalent about the upper classes, since, on the surface their "fun" tended to be a little more outwardly decorous. I remember reading somewhere that he approved of one particular entertainment event on the grounds that it would do "no harm to the Godly". Arrogant prat, really!

And, yes, being an "actress" in that period generally meant prostitution as a means of making ends meet between gigs on stage.

Hypocrisy was alive and well in those days (and before them, I guess), and that appears to have remained the case ever since. Hark to the British Conservative governments of the 80s and 90s ...



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#12637 12/14/00 11:24 PM
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carpe curvus?

Perhaps carpe curvum, but probably carpe anulum.

It's funny - this is my first day visiting this board, which is dedicated to exploring and playing with the English language, and it's got me mostly focusing on my Latin.

Hyla


#12638 12/15/00 02:50 AM
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Hi bel...since no one more literary-minded than I has come back to you, I thought I'd better explain it myself.

You asked Don't assume some such CapK. What are Pepy's diaries?

Well, I keep telling you I'm trained in economics, and therefore making silly assumptions is a requirement for me to stay in the club.

However, Samuel Pepys was one of those larger than life characters that you find littering the pages of history. I don't remember his dates, but he was aging during the latter part of the Commonweath (was that up to 1664? Can't remember exactly). He did okay under Noll Cromwell, but flourished under the Restoration because of rampant nepotism.

Rather than me boring you - and everyone else - with my take on things, this reference to Encarta will give you the nutshell:

http://encarta.msn.com/find/Concise.asp?ti=00398000

Happy reading.



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#12639 12/15/00 03:25 AM
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prostitution as a means of making ends meet

Aaah! Oh! Uh--I think you have just ascended the throne of gutterdom. But all's well that ends well. Wish I had dared put parentheses around the s in my subject. Guess
I'm not up on all the tricks of the trade.


#12640 12/15/00 08:37 AM
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Jackie reposted: prostitution as a means of making ends meet

Aaah! Oh! Uh--I think you have just ascended the throne of gutterdom. But all's well that ends well. Wish I had dared put parentheses around the s in my subject. Guess
I'm not up on all the tricks of the trade.


Well, I'm glad it didn't pass entirely unnoticed. Although I thought it was pretty innocuous. Pepys was much more explicit. Known in those days as a "warm" man.



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