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Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 > Topic Options #123471 - 02/20/04 10:57 AM Out inselpeter Pooh-Bah Registered: 03/14/01 Posts: 2379 Loc: New York City I just wrote a line of dialogue consisting of the single word "out." Since this is the only word uttered in the scene (making it a monologue, I suppose) I parked on it a minute. And then, I wondered. If I were to write the word phonetically (and, I admit to having an odd accent), I might write 'aut' (short 'a'). Which brings me to my question. To the extent that standard spellings represent pronunciation at all, do they reflect the current pronunciation of words at the time and place they were set, or standardizations of received spellings? I understand, for example (as I believe we once discussed) that (Amer.) Revolutionary War manuscripts contain good information on the pronunciation of Elizabethan English. Top #123472 - 02/20/04 11:08 AM Re: Out jheem veteran Registered: 01/06/04 Posts: 1474 Loc: California Well, I'd heard the Elizabethan English still spoken in the Appalachian mountains factoid, but not the Revolutionary War one. I don't buy either. Orthography is just one dangerous swamp into which I try not to go. That having been said: our spelling totters between the phonological and the etymological. Spelling influences pronunciation and vice versa. What bothers you about out? Is it the 'u'? Stressed vowels becoming diphthongs is pretty normal in language change. Top #123473 - 02/20/04 12:32 PM Re: Out inselpeter Pooh-Bah Registered: 03/14/01 Posts: 2379 Loc: New York City <<What bothers you about 'out'? Well, "bothers" is a bit strong. The spoken dipthong is 'a' (as in, yes, 'an') and 'u' as in 'blue'. But if I were just coming ashore, I'd read it like a Dutchman 'oh-u-t' -- or, pretty close to 'oat'. Top #123474 - 02/20/04 01:00 PM Re: Out Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/24/02 Posts: 7184 Loc: Vermont ouch? edit it took me a while to realize what you were saying, but wow. we ought(!) to spell out owt, nowt? _________________________ formerly known as etaoin... Top #123475 - 02/20/04 01:08 PM Re: Out jheem veteran Registered: 01/06/04 Posts: 1474 Loc: California Ah, but you're not a Dutchman. How do you feel about the 'o' in one? OTOH, ounce, our, and oust all go with with the {#ou} to /Aw/ mapping. There's really no rhyme or reason to English spelling—pausing to don asbestos suit—just a lot of post hoc rationalization. Top #123476 - 02/20/04 01:50 PM Re: Out Jenet journeyman Registered: 11/22/03 Posts: 81 Well, this one is about as regular as English gets (ahem). Long u, respelt ou under French influence, then Great Vowel Shift to au. Top #123477 - 02/20/04 02:31 PM Re: Out dodyskin addict Registered: 04/24/02 Posts: 475 Loc: manchester uk we ought(!) to spell out owt, nowt? but then we could be saying anything Top #123478 - 02/20/04 08:19 PM Re: Out Bingley Carpal Tunnel Registered: 04/09/00 Posts: 3065 Loc: Jakarta or nothing as the case may be Bingley _________________________ Bingley Top #123479 - 02/21/04 05:06 AM Re: Out dodyskin addict Registered: 04/24/02 Posts: 475 Loc: manchester uk chuckles appreciatively-e as Bingley rounds off nicely Top #123480 - 02/21/04 07:05 AM Re: Owt Buffalo Shrdlu Carpal Tunnel Registered: 06/24/02 Posts: 7184 Loc: Vermont _________________________ formerly known as etaoin... Top Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 > Previous Topic Index Next Topic Preview Hop to: General Topics ------   Information and announcements   Q&A about words   Wordplay and fun   Words and languages in schools   Miscellany   Weekly Themes   Looking for (writers, speakers, ...) (Old) Weekly themes. 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