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#119493 - 01/10/04 04:04 PM music and math
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
I wandered upon an interesting site:
http://www.kylegann.com/tuning.html, and found this line:
"Harmony" and "arithmetic" are derived from the same root.
I guess I didn't know this, and if I did, I have forgotten it. what do they cognate from? <evil cross-threading grin>

oh, and if this is a yart, my apologies. it hasn't been since I've been here. I think.

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formerly known as etaoin...

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#119494 - 01/10/04 04:10 PM Re: music and math
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear etaoin: Badword anyone who says YART. It is rude and
unreasonable to expect new members to search before they
post. And if etaoin doesn't remember it, few others will
I don't see any likelihood of a close etymologic relation between harmonic and arithmetic, but I'll go search.

arithmetic

SYLLABICATION: a·rith·me·tic
PRONUNCIATION: -rthm-tk
NOUN: 1. The mathematics of integers, rational numbers, real numbers, or complex numbers under addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. 2. Archaic A book on this kind of mathematics.
ADJECTIVE: ar·ith·met·ic (rth-mtk) also arith·meti·cal (rth-mt-kl) 1. Of or relating to arithmetic. 2. Changing according to an arithmetic progression: The increase in the food supply is arithmetic.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English arsmetike, from Old French arismetique, from Medieval Latin arismetica, alteration of Latin arithmtica, from Greek arithmtik (tekhn), (art) of counting, feminine of arithmtikos, from arithmein, to count, from arithmos, number. See ar- in Appendix I.
OTHER FORMS: arith·meti·cal·ly —ADVERB
a·rithme·tician (-tshn) —NOUN

harmonic

SYLLABICATION: har·mon·ic
PRONUNCIATION: här-mnk
ADJECTIVE: 1a. Of or relating to harmony. b. Pleasing to the ear: harmonic orchestral effects. c. Characterized by harmony: a harmonic liturgical chant. 2. Of or relating to harmonics. 3. Integrated in nature.
NOUN: 1a. Any of a series of musical tones whose frequencies are integral multiples of the frequency of a fundamental tone. b. A tone produced on a stringed instrument by lightly touching an open or stopped vibrating string at a given fraction of its length so that both segments vibrate. Also called overtone, partial, partial tone. 2. harmonics (used with a sing. verb) The theory or study of the physical properties and characteristics of musical sound. 3. Physics A wave whose frequency is a whole-number multiple of that of another.
ETYMOLOGY: Latin harmonicus, from Greek harmonikos, from harmoni, harmony. See harmony.
OTHER FORMS: har·moni·cal·ly —ADVERB

I can remember vaguely something about Pythagorus seeing
arithmetic in musical scale. But the two word do not appear to be cognates.



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#119495 - 01/10/04 04:21 PM Re: music and math
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
They go back to the same PIE root, ar-, per AHD4, along with army, hatred, rite, and rhyme, among others.


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#119496 - 01/10/04 04:24 PM Re: music and math
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear Faldage: those defintions I posted are from AHD.

Here's a URL about Pythagorus, and his interest in numbers
and music:
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/math5.geometry/unit3/unit3.html#Music of the Spheres


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#119497 - 01/10/04 04:28 PM Re: music and math
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
thanks, Bill, for the research, and Fald, that's quite a list! ar is quite a powerful little word...
Bill, Pythagoras worked out the ratios to natural tuning; overtones and such, and discovered the Pythgorean comma, that little extra space where the numbers don't add up, which I believe we just discussed a bit ago. this stuff goes so deep... I need more time.

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formerly known as etaoin...

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#119498 - 01/10/04 04:31 PM Re: music and math
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
thanks Bill, for that Pythagoras link. you popped that one in while I was composing my previous reply!

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formerly known as etaoin...

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#119499 - 01/10/04 04:37 PM Re: music and math
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
Dear etaoin: if you need time, think how much time this senile citizen needs.


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#119500 - 01/10/04 08:16 PM Re: music and math
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
Bill wrote: "Badword anyone who says YART. It is rude and unreasonable to expect new members to search before they post."

And the Vicar responds: "Bless you, good sir, for this tolerant, sympathetic, kind and inviting way of looking at this issue."



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#119501 - 01/11/04 10:02 AM Re: yarting
Wordwind Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 6296
Loc: Piedmont Region of Virginia, U...
I, too, am with the view that the 'yart' card is rude. We are all such writers here that we could at last summarize points of view that we remembered from a previous discussion or just mention that the topic had been covered a while back and then recall an interesting fact or two frm that discussion. But to stop discussion altogether, especially if the topic hasn't been discussed in a while? Balderdash!

Now if the topic has been covered, say, last week, or is currently being discussed? Well, sure. Send the poster on to the active thread--or recently deceased dead thread.


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#119502 - 01/11/04 01:26 PM Inappropriate assumptions
musick Offline
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Registered: 12/24/00
Posts: 2658
Loc: Chicago
http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=miscellany&Number=78119

****************

Don't bother reading the below if your interested in harmony.

http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=108717

There's nothing like calling talking about yarting a yart... especially when doing so does, indeed, "stop the discussion altogether." IMNSHO, a yart is exactly "mentioning that the topic had been covered a while back...". As for the rest (see above links) I believe including a link is appropriate and all part of the responsibility (and benefits) of being part of a community. Of course I don't expect new people to search for a topic before they post, and that has nothing to do with what 'yart' has come to mean.

The yart card remains *rude* because of the perception that is perpetuated by assumptions, not the reality of its use and the intentions behind. There IS a difference if you make one. Nobody complains when I call a "self-yart", and something tells me that etaoin knows very well that his question didn't necessarily need an apology included...

... and, my tendency is to assume that someone will take offence to my above words, but I'd rather choose the assumption that we can stop ever talking about this again...


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