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#119068 - 01/07/04 05:51 PM Sea Change
gift horse Offline
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Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Recently an old friend of mine mentioned that he has undergone a sea change. Other than in Shakespeare, I hadn't heard this used much before. Does sea change imply a positive or negative change? Is it used regionally or have I just been living in a cave too long?

Thanks!
Dawn the Hermit


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#119069 - 01/07/04 05:53 PM Re: Sea Change
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont
I've always thought positive, but don't know that I've thought about it...

OneLook says: noun: a profound transformation

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#119070 - 01/07/04 06:27 PM Re: Sea Change
maverick Offline
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
Interestingly enough, sweet hermit, the last time this came up some people seemed to think if anything it was overused!

Perhaps in the interim there has been a sea change in us(e)age yet again... sea what you think of the previous discussion here, if you want:

http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=31542


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#119071 - 01/07/04 06:38 PM Re: Sea Change
wwh Offline
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Registered: 01/18/01
Posts: 13858
It seems to me the price of a "sea change" is far too high:

ARIEL sings

Full fathom five thy father lies;
Of his bones are coral made;
Those are pearls that were his eyes:
Nothing of him that doth fade
But doth suffer a sea-change
Into something rich and strange.
Sea-nymphs hourly ring his knell



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#119072 - 01/07/04 08:05 PM Rats!
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
I performed an AWAD search and didn't find it listed, so thought (silly me) that it hadn't been discussed. Oh, the life of an embryo member...

Seriously, thank you for the link, sir maverick. I'll read the thread now.


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#119073 - 01/07/04 08:14 PM Re: Sea Change
gift horse Offline
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Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
It seems to me the price of a "sea change" is far too high:

Indeed! It's almost an advertisement for constancy. Personally, I think sameness is under-rated.

And thank you for including the quote. It's been ages since I read that. All I could recall was, "Those are pearls that were his eyes". Lovely imagery.


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#119074 - 01/07/04 08:57 PM Re: Sea Change
Jackie Offline

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"Those are pearls that were his eyes". Lovely imagery. Ick...ick--no it isn't! It means he's dead, horribly dead. Brings up mental images of scavengers eating his eyeballs. [I still hate Shakespeare e]



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#119075 - 01/07/04 10:40 PM Re: Sea Change
gift horse Offline
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Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
gift horse wrote:
"Those are pearls that were his eyes". Lovely imagery.

Then Jackie wrote:
Ick...ick--no it isn't! It means he's dead, horribly dead. Brings up mental images of scavengers eating his eyeballs. [I still hate Shakespeare e]

Yes. Okay, perhaps I misused 'lovely' here. But I still maintain that it's terrific imagery, in the sense that it brings a distinct and unflinching image to the mind.

I love Shakespeare. He gave the equivalent of the cinema to his day...and to ours for that matter. Much better than Hollywood.


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#119076 - 01/07/04 11:17 PM Re: Rats!
Father Steve Offline
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Dear Dawn ~

I apologize for those situations where a new member of the board uses our highly-unreliable search function to ascertain that a topic has not previously been "done" and then gets pounced on for posting about such a topic, which turns out to have been "done" but not so's the search function reveals it. To the extent that such pouncing is inhospitable, please forgive us all. We don't mean to be mean ... we just are, sometimes.




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#119077 - 01/07/04 11:40 PM Re: Rats!
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Thank you, Father Steve.

No offense taken at all, though, really. I see now that I didn't switch to "all posts" on the search engine. I'm still learning; slowly to be sure, but learning, at any rate.

Best Regards,
Dawn


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#119078 - 01/08/04 05:17 AM Re: Rats!
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
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I didn't switch to "all posts"
yeah, it's funny what you won't find in Animal Safari...

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#119079 - 01/08/04 07:23 AM Re: Rats!
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
I didn't switch to "all posts"
yeah, it's funny what you won't find in Animal Safari...

Actually, I used All Forums, which took me out of Animal Safari. What I didn't do is switch the time frames, so I was only looking at what happened in the last week.
Feet of clay here, folks.


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#119080 - 01/08/04 07:56 AM Re: Rats!
Jackie Offline

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11609
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
It takes a while, Sweetie. Feel free to ask me or 'most anyone for help. (I still haven't figured out the Search Options, myself.)


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#119081 - 01/08/04 01:23 PM Re: O.T. Thanks!
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Thank you, Jackie. You're very kind.


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#119082 - 01/09/04 06:52 AM Re: O.T. Thanks!
maverick Offline
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Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 4757
I hope there is no way my earlier post can be construed as 'pouncing' on anyone, least of all inhospitably - just a simple invite to look at some other comments offered to date, with a clear acknowledgment that no such discussion can ever be the "last word".


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#119083 - 01/09/04 08:08 AM Re: O.T. Thanks!
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Hi Maverick

No offense taken by me. All is well.

I was glad to read the other discussion, though there seems to be some glitch that makes it impossible to look at the entire thread. When I click on "show all" or page 2 or 3, the thread changes entirely. But I did get to read the first page at least.

Never a dull moment.

Take care,
Dawn


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#119084 - 01/09/04 08:18 AM Re: Entire thread
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
There's a trick to being able to read the entire thread, Dawn, but I forget what it is. Someone will tell you, I'm sure.


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#119085 - 01/09/04 08:46 AM Re: Entire thread
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
From the FAQ:

Becoming Unthreaded

When accessing old thread you might find that you can only view them in threaded mode, once you get past
page 1 of flat mode they seem to cross-link to other threads. I tend to find this a little disconcerting but it
seems to be part of the amusement of the board.



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#119086 - 01/09/04 09:11 AM Re: Entire thread
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
When accessing old thread you might find that you can only view them in threaded mode, once you get past
page 1 of flat mode they seem to cross-link to other threads.


This is exactly what's happening with the link maverick gave me. This time it cross-linked to a thread on undecorate. Glad to know it's not just me. Whew!

Thanks Father Steve.

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#119087 - 01/09/04 09:18 AM Re: Entire thread
of troy Offline
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Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
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re:once you get past page 1 of flat mode they seem to cross-link to other threads.

which is why we old timers set up our preferences to veiw 99 post per page, so all the post are one one page..
for the same reason, thread are deliberately ended (and sometime have a part 2 or 3)at 98 post (original and 98 replies/etc=99)...

you can set your preferences to 99 and zip through long threads, and not have to 'reload pages as you read thread that got long when you weren't looking.

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#119088 - 01/09/04 09:41 AM Re: Entire thread
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
we old timers set up our preferences to veiw 99 post per page...

You're so smart! Thanks for that tip. I just modified my preferences. That's going to save a lot of time and end some frustration. Thank you, of troy!


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#119089 - 01/09/04 06:56 PM Re: Entire thread
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
You can change the typeface in which the board is displayed at the same location. I chose Garamond because it is elegant and refined .. sorta like me.



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#119090 - 01/10/04 12:36 PM Re: Entire thread
dodyskin Offline
addict

Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 475
Loc: manchester uk
you can change the typeface PAH, I should be so lucky. Linux laughs at any attempt to change font, it smiles sweetly and ignores me completely, but it is worth it, it is, it is, I just have to keep telling myself that.


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#119091 - 01/10/04 01:43 PM BarBQism
grapho Offline
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Registered: 11/09/03
Posts: 619
Loc: Carpal Tunnel Country
I chose Garamond because it is elegant and refined .. sorta like me ...

... in an 18th Century sorta way.

Sorry, Father Steve. I couldn't resist that after you described your sweet bride's creative use of "undecorate" as a "barbarism".

Perhaps you meant "BarBQism". She might(?) find that more palatable.

"Decorating" a Christmas tree sounds like a lot more fun than "dressing" one. That may explain why no-one ever "dresses" a Christmas tree.

It would also explain why no-one ever "undresses" a Christmas tree.

If we can "dress" and "undress" a Christmas tree [which no-one is much interested in doing ... and who can blame them, it does sound stuffy, doesn't it?]. why shouldn't we be allowed to "decorate" and "undecorate" a Christmas tree?



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#119092 - 01/11/04 10:21 PM Re: BarBQism
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
I said: "I chose Garamond because it is elegant and refined .. sorta like me>"

And Grapho said: "... in an 18th Century sorta way."

And I reply: That is the nicest thing anyone has said to me all week, perhaps in a fortnight.




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#119093 - 01/12/04 07:29 AM Re: BarBQism
grapho Offline
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Registered: 11/09/03
Posts: 619
Loc: Carpal Tunnel Country
That is the nicest thing anyone has said to me all week, perhaps in a fortnight.

My pleasure, Father Steve.

Those were simpler, perhaps even nobler, times.

Sometimes, I wish I could go back there myself.




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#119094 - 01/12/04 08:20 AM Living in another time
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
My sweet bride and I just watched a DVD of "Man of the Century" -- the story of a young man in 1999 who lives (dresses, speaks, eats, smokes, romances) as if it were 1928. It was quite good, really.


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#119095 - 01/12/04 08:35 AM Re: BarBQism
Faldage Offline
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Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
simpler, perhaps even nobler, times

Ah, yes. As my old pappy used to say, "Whatever became of the good old days, when we used to say, 'Whatever became of the good old days?'?"


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#119096 - 01/12/04 09:02 AM the myth of the wonder past
of troy Offline
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Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
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Those were simpler, perhaps even nobler, times. Sometimes, I wish I could go back there myself.


have you never read Dickens? or had a storm or electic failure leave you with out power for a day or two? or worse yet, not have running (CLEAN) water available to you for 48 hours?

there are plenty of things wrong with society today... but i don't think times past were kinder, gentler or nobler.. they were harsher, more brutal, and lives were shorter.

i know for myself, my family lived in relative luxury. (in dublin 150 years ago) which is why i am alive today.. they escaped the worst of the potato famine because they were employed (as stock men and house servants to rich english)

they were smart--my g.grandfather was a stock broker in the days when that meant he bought and sold stock, (ie, cattle, sheep,horses!) he wasn't independant, but smart enough to get work for an english/company family, and he travelled to the continent, and lived well.--his father was also a stock broker, but only in ireland..

of course living well at the time meant very little, (even the british crown wasn't exempt from the ravages of cholara,) and as house servants, the distaff side had it better than the bulk of the irish populace, but still, as a family, they were bared from owning property in their own right,(men and women both) and could look forward to short, sickly lives (my grandfather died from complications of TB-in the relitively easier times of the second half of the last century.)

and my children can also look to their fathers side and not find lives much easier or nobler
one of their paternal g.grandparents was 'left behind'(she was sick with measles) when the family emigrated west on the oregon trail (before civil war). she was supposed to follow her family, and travel with the next west bound wagon train, but the civil war interupted.. after the war, her 'step parents' alleged they had lost track of the family, and there was no one to send her too.

she was kept on, in virtual sevitude till she was 21 and married. years later when her step parents died, she found a stack of letters from her family in Oregon, begging for her to be sent west.. but many years had past, and she though her parent would likely be dead as well.. she tried, but had no success in finding any siblings.

an other paternal g.grandparent was born to a civil war veterian-one who survived Andersonville prision, (but lost a leg) --obviously these people were grand scale survivors.. times were hard, life was tough...and i for one, am please to have running water, and good lighting, and personal liberty, and all the other perqs of modern day life!

i don't think the southern inflicted any 'special' treatment on the union soldiers at andersonville, the south was suffering, and many were starving.. but there is nothing noble out what happened there!

(you could be one of those people (i think not) who believe they are reincarnated.. have you ever noticed, all those that do, were always a lord or lady, or king or queen in their past lives? i suspect if i had a past life, i would have been a barefoot, illiterate milk maid, who died young and foolishly)

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#119097 - 01/12/04 11:22 AM Re: the myth of the wonder past
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Hi of troy

Those are great family stories you have there. I hope they are all written down in detail somewhere for your own kids.

there are plenty of things wrong with society today... but i don't think times past were kinder, gentler or nobler.. they were harsher, more brutal, and lives were shorter.

Agreed. Plus there is that little matter of dying in child-birth; one of the major killers of women before the advent of birth-control, antibiotics, sterile surgical practices and anesthesia.

Actually, just being a woman before women were allowed to vote, own land, make a decent wage (has that happened yet?) or have any kind of control over their bodies would be a real bummer for me. Of course, women in some societies now still don't have those options.

I suppose if I could go back to the 18th century as a rich man of property in a fairly temperate climate, I might consider it. Then again, probably not.

BTW, have you watched the PBS documentaries where they transport real families into different times?

Frontier House
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/frontierhouse/project/speakout.html

1900's House
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/1900house/

My favorite so far:
Manor House
http://www.pbs.org/manorhouse/

And the newest one coming up is Colonial House:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/colonialhouse/

What eye-opening experiements in socio-psychology. Also, better them than me.


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#119098 - 01/12/04 01:54 PM Re: BarBQism
sjmaxq Offline
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Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
>The good old days.

This kind of rose-coloured recall is a very old problem, apparently. It even gets a mention in the Bible, at Ecclesiastes 7:10

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#119099 - 01/12/04 04:28 PM Re: BarBQism
maverick Offline
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Posts: 4757
So even in the time of the Dead Sea scrolls, a change that was slow to see was capable of marking a sea-change?


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#119100 - 01/13/04 01:01 PM Re: "Good" old days ?
wow Offline
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Registered: 11/25/00
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Loc: New England, USA
dying in child-birth
Thank God for Dr. Lister
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/b.gardner/Lister.html
and Dr. Semmelweiss
http://36.1911encyclopedia.org/S/SE/SEMMELWEISS_IGNATZ_PHILIPP.htm
A fiction book was written based on Semmelweiss's life. Good read. Can't remember the name, 'twas years ago!


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#119101 - 01/13/04 01:14 PM Re: "Good" old days ?
of troy Offline
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Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
i first learned about Semmelweiss in the microbe hunters--which was a best seller in the mid 1950, and still well known in the early 1960's when i found it.
lister made the book too.. i think.. i was about 15 at the time i read it, and it had enough science to be interesting, and it was a series of short biographies..

i forget the author (shame on me) but the book was favorite for a very long time.

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#119102 - 01/13/04 01:17 PM Re: "Good" old days ?
jheem Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 1474
Loc: California
A fiction book was written based on Semmelweiss's life. Good read. Can't remember the name, 'twas years ago!

Ferdinand Celine, the French collaborationist and author, did his medical dissertation on Dr Semmelweiss. An interesting story of one doctor's fight against the ingrained stupidity of his time, er, I mean received wisdom.



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#119103 - 01/13/04 01:43 PM Re: "Good" old days ?
gift horse Offline
member

Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 180
Loc: Austin, TX
Thanks for the links, wow! Very interesting indeed. I remember watching a special on the History of Sex. They told how women in the 1930's were encouraged to use Lysol as birth control. Of course, it didn't work and some women, in their desperation, ended up killing themselves with too strong a dosage. Very sad.

My favorite heroine on the subject is Margaret Sanger. What an intelligent, caring and courageous woman she was.

http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/sanger.html


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